Good vid here.
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Good vid here.
Great vocabulary lessons to the kids during the first 2,5 minutes (read cynical) !Quote:
Behind all the news and all the propaganda, Marines in Afghanistan decide to keep it real and show you what its really like dealing with a deployment in Afghanistan. This will either piss you off, make you laugh or maybe both.
I'm most impressed with his command of the English language :wry:
It's hard to know where to begin with this video. I served in a Marine grunt unit for four years, so on the one hand I can say that it is honest and real, but it is also really disturbing. It's difficult to gauge how much of this is just good field humor and how of it is American arrogance and ignorance towards the locals. It seems to show what a steep climb we Americans have in conducting effective counterinsurgency ops. There's pretty much every 'ugly American' stereotype on display here. I'm hoping that it's just a few bad apples shooting their mouths off. What a disappointment though.
Not good at all... As posted above - disturbing is a better word for this video.Quote:
Originally Posted by tequila
Disturbing or not, I think it is good because it represents a realistic slice of life for at least some Marine grunts in A'stan.
If it illustrates that the average grunt has a way to go as far as empathizing with the people he is protecting, then that is good as well. Far better to know this than to pretend that our current TTPs for cultural understanding are working.
Understand where you are coming from on this. Regardless, I cringe when I see and hear such stuff - on video or in 'real life'. I maintain that there are no excuses as in 'boys will be boys' - that may have been water under the bridge years ago - but now every one of these BS 'our boys in combat do no wrong' videos seriously damages our efforts.Quote:
Originally Posted by tequila
Perhaps this video is reflective of our society and its values? In studying irregular warfare and counter-insurgency, I don't see too many American ideals with regards to respect for other cultures, striving to learn the language of the people, and most of all maturity in dealing with other people unlike yourself...these are traits often found in Special Forces A-Teams and not conventional line units. Having served on both sides of the fence I can say that most boys in these types of units are young and immature. They feed off of immediate gratification that is reflective in most things within our society, so I am not at all surprised to see this type of video out there. I recall in the mid-90's when the generals and civilian leadership were speaking out against humanitarian missions and these so-called "soft" missions of winning the hearts and minds. Fast forward to today and these same civilian leaders are saying that we need counter-insurgency doctrine and the training to support this doctrine. Our problem in the armed forces is our ability to adapt to rapidly changing threats and environments. At the end of the day we still excel at the high-end conventional warfare as seen in March 2003 with the invasion of Iraq, but we lack and IMHO will always lack the ability to conduct timely (key emphasis) counter-insurgency warfare effectively.
To be fair if the grunts in ww2's pacific theatre or Korea had the ability to tape and upload videos people back then it would have been much worse and offensive.Quote:
how of it is American arrogance and ignorance towards the locals. It seems to show what a steep climb we Americans have in conducting effective counterinsurgency ops. There's pretty much every 'ugly American' stereotype on display here. I'm hoping that it's just a few bad apples shooting their mouths off. What a disappointment though.
This is the result of a lot of young people from this post-MTV open source generation in a stressful foreign environment.
It is both funny and offensive.
As a completion of a bunch of different stuff the degree to which parts of it are funny or offensive will vary.
Edit: I have never seent his liveleak.com website before but it seems intresting.
Liveleak.com is the new and cleaned up Ogrish.com
So it goes for "hearts and minds". Seems like times from RVN..somethings never change or perhaps never will.
that does not change. If they're in uniform and not acting right, they aren't trained and led properly...
Even those that are well trained and led will still behave like nineteen year olds (or younger) given the slightest chance. All leaders can do is try their hardest and hope for the best; a few will still sneak by. That is not an endorsement or a boys will be boys effort, merely an acknowledgement of reality. We have to try to contain and channel all that, no question...
FWIW, I've seen the same behavior at that age and level in Brits, French, Australians, Canadians, Viet Namese, Iranians, Arabs, Koreans and Thais. Never been stationed in Europe but my son who was says the Germans are the same. People are people.
The video's made the circles in the Marine Corps, and was used in Gen. Conway's May conference on values and ethics as an example of the need for reinforced core values training.
mmx1,
Can you recall what the Commandant's salient points were (e.g. leadership failure, own IO failure, etc.)?
This sort of thing goes on in just about every army or marine corps when some or all of the NCOs who are supposed to be keeping their eagle eyes on the youngsters, aren't doing just that. They know full well that the mice will play when the cat's away, and sometimes this is unavoidable; a fire team leader or squad leader can't be around 60 minutes an hour, 24 hours a day. But still, this was something that was clearly going on for a while, involving several individuals, and going on out in the open.
My question is, where were the NCOs all this time?:confused: If I had so much as lain my weapon more than an arm's length from me at any time (in garrison or in the field), I'd have been made to suffer, never mind what would have been done to me if I'd been caught laying out on top of a position in full view for all and sundry to see. Some of the NCOs (and officers) must have seen what was going on, and at least a few of them should've done something. Clearly morale and discipline ain't what it could be in that unit. It may the young squaddie's fault for making such a sick video, but it was those in authority over them that should have been making their authority felt, and discipline firmly imposed.
I agree with Pragmatic Thinker here. You have to be realistic about the guys in these units, they are not einsteins and probably don't fully understand the strategy behind what they're doing. This probably reflects a lack of leadership.