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Superb post on how disinformation can leak into the press and thinktank world. Afghanistanica examines the idea of swarms of Chechen fighters in Afghanistan.
Mod's Note: this link no longer works, see Post No.9 for new link
My favorite example of this was in Bing West's No True Glory where he implies that Chechen fighters fought against Marines in Falluja.
Indeed a great post, Tequila !Quote:
Originally Posted by tequila
Some of the captions for the 'pics' are hilarious such as:
Quote:
Pic: “We ain’t in Afghanistan. We in Moscow”
Who was saying this about the Chechens? Usually it was journalists, American officers or other US government spokespersons. It usually went something like this: “Yeah, we’re fighting the hardcore al Qaeda troops right now. You know, Arabs, Uzbeks, Malaysians, um….Uyghurs……and…uh …..the reanimated zombie corpses of Confederate soldiers and Chechens.” OK, maybe they did not actually say Malaysians but you get the point.
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Pic: “Dude! The IMU has no Chechens. And I’m even running low on Uzbeks. If things keep up like this It’ll be just me.”
Actually, the only thing here that is definitely true is the part about the embassy, which was very small and had the worst embassy parties ever.
In something of the same vein: Spot the Chechen!
I found this to be the salient point:
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So who is telling these “misrepresentations of reality?” The originators would be the Russian FSB and the Kremlin, trying to tie in the fight against the Chechens into the American war on terror and legitimizing their operations in Chechnya. Many in the Russian media picked this up and ran with it. They were very soon joined by American journalists who were repeating the Russian journalists, and most importantly, the US Department of Defense. The DoD likely did so out of sheer ignorance (an ignorance shared by many stateside). However, it is possible that the desire to show Russia the need for an American base in Central Asia to support the war in Afghanistan was a motivating factor. Also, the US would like to portray the resistance to them in Afghanistan as coming from crazed Jihadis from far off lands when really it’s coming from locals and Pakistanis. This joined the Americans and the Russians in some mutually beneficial storytelling.
Indeed, and it is remarkable that so many American military personnel are quoted, apparently eager to swallow such mythmaking.
The phenomenon of supposed Chinese Uyghur jihadis is probably similar to the Chechen myth. See the classification of Uyghur Muslim groups as al-Qaeda affiliates in the wake of 9/11, likely with info provided by the Chinese government. IIRC the only Uighurs captured in Afghanistan were essentially acquitted of any terrorist connections and eventually deported to Albania out of fears that they would be tortured if sent home to China.
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Originally Posted by tequila
regrettable bvut not surprising....we see bad guys everywhere when we get into these things. My experience as a historian looking at the Congo in 64 and Zaire in 78 taught me to be wary of this phenomenon. In 64 Congo, it was the Chinese and in 78 Zaire it was Cubans. In reality the Communist push tpo take control of the 64 Simba Crisis came after the US-Belgian operations in Stanleyville and Paulis as well as the US-Belgian Merc operation. The main player was Che as Castro's agent of change and he failed miserably, defeated by anti-Castro merc US hired forcesw with US SOF assistance. In 78 Zaire the real intervention from Warsaw Pact forces apparentlly was East German, but the Carter Adminstration started screaming the "Cubans are coming."
The real problem then becomes sorting out the chaff and the wheat. WHo is really out there and what is he doing versus the "boogie man in the closet" we don't want to open.
Best
Tom
I borrowed a book from my son a few months ago . Robert's Ridge about fighting on a mountain in Afganistan . There was several comments , apparently from Ranger, Air Force , Seal observers that the people they were fighting were " Chechens" . Chechens as a group, as foreign volunteers in the ranks ? Interesting book .
In 2002 we had a team chasing a group of Russian speaking caucasian looking types that the Afghans called Chechens. We also had a number of reports of Chechen fighters, with their families, in country. Most of them, not all by any means, were heading towards a border to get out of the country.
My impression was that these were small groups of exiles who ended up in Afghanistan because they had no other place to go. Afghanistan was not the first choice of refuge for folks on the run with their families.
There is little confirmed evidence of Chechens in Afghanistan or Iraq. The Chechens have taken an almost mythical nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Ex
I've know a captain (now major) who deployed with special forces to Afghanistan and personally killed Chechens.Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
If you read "House to House" about the Battle of Fallujah, Chechens were recorded as being there.
Just saying.
The original article "Imaginary Chechens Attack!", has been relocated to the Ghosts of Alexander blog.
Joshua Frost has also covered the topic at Registan.net:
Framing the Threat, 5/30/09
Army Major Disputes Story of Chechen Fighters in Afghanistan, 7/3/09 (see the comments as well)
From another thread:
Everyone here knows someone who has personally killed “Chechens”. It is not a question of if they were fighting foreign fighters or not, but rather if they were fighting actual Chechens. Not Uzbek, Azeri, Turkish, Nogai, Ingush, etc; but Chechen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Ex
How did he know he was Chechen?
It is not easy to prove, and the evidence for significant groups of Chechens in Afghanistan is minimal. I have also yet to read the name of a single Chechen fighter killed in Iraq or Afghanistan in a public source, and I literally have hundreds of articles on Chechnya and Chechens.
He told us, in a military setting (given that he was in the coc and was recovering from an a wound suffered in Afghanistan), that he and the team he was in killed multiple foreign fighters, including Chechens, his proof being documents they carried. These are the words of a captain spoken in a formal setting around majors and lt. Colonels, so I was inclined to believe him.
By the way, my original post was not meant to spark a debate about Chechens. You could have substituted any of the foreign fighters we encounter in Afghanistan or Iraq. Kind of pedantic, no? My point was not to talk about Chechens, but rather the physical disparity between men and women.Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
That said, I found your article very interesting. If you are correct, i've honestly learned something.
I guess my team's experience was on of the little confirmed bits of evidence. Of course our intel analyst only spoke Russian and Turkish, this being back in '02.Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon