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Hi,
Would members be willing to give their opinions on the best diplomatic and military history programs in the English-speaking domain (e.g., US, UK, and Canada?
I'd apply strictly to strategic and war studies programs if given the choice, but fear they'd transfer poorly to the academic job market than a "straight" history degree.
I apologize in advance, but I'd like to decline, for anonymity purposes, to introduce myself.
Thanks
OC
Actually, could I get a more comprehensive list of (ideally) *all* departments with a solid cluster of faculty who concentrate in diplomatic and military history, not necessarily *just* the best departments. I intend to apply to the best, but that does not mean I'll necessarily get into the best, and I want to plan accordingly.
Thanks
OC
Ohio State is arguably the best military history department in the United States:
http://people.cohums.ohio-state.edu/...gram/index.htm
Looking beyond just the department level, it is also advisable to seek out the top military historian for your particular interested discipline and have them supervise your Master's or PhD work. For instance, if I were looking to study Civil War history, I would seek study under someone such as Carol Reardon:
http://history.psu.edu/faculty/reardonCarol.php
or James Robertson:
http://www.history.vt.edu/Robertson/
If they supervised my thesis and signed off on it, that would carry a lot of weight.
A university might not have a strong military history department top to bottom (such as an Ohio State), but it could have a foremost expert on a particular segment of military history. So, if you wanted to study 20th Century U.S. military history, go find the recognized expert and have them supervise your work. (Although, that can be easier said than done).
I will second that nod to Ohio State. As an alumnus though. Got my B.A. in History there.
It's really a great department. I loved all of my history professors. Some schools do not take military history seriously for whatever reason. Ohio State is not one of them.
I wish I could take my Master's there, but since I'm in Virginia I'm looking at George Mason University.
I'll put in plugs for Kings College, London, and the University of Calgary. I was at a great conference on World War II put on by the University of Calgary recently, and they really do have some top notch people in both military history and security studies (i.e. more poli sci).
Xenophon: I have my Master's of Arts in History from George Mason University. I completed the program a couple of years ago. Solid, up and coming program. Good professors. I was disappointed by some of my fellow students in the program who were rather average academically. Although, a handfull in each class were strong students, so I was able to bond with them.
OC--Quote:
Originally Posted by outletclock
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "best"? Do you mean:
- Programs with the best reputations in the fields you mentioned among those who work and study in those fields?
- Programs with the best reputations that will help you land an academic job? (If you want to get an academic job as a military historian in the United States you will want to start managing your expectations now.)
- Programs that offer the best fit for your anticipated areas of study in terms of specific faculty members, research resources, and available economic support? (If chemistry and rapport are important to you, you'll want to make sure you can get along with prospective professors before you make a commitment to work with them. But I'm not bitter.)
- Programs that will best prepare you to think, to read, and to write like an academic or a military historian?
IMO, the last question is crucial. In my experience (and based on my research) academic historians and military historians have fundamentally different approaches historiography. IMO, you may best be served by mastering both approaches. (And if you study American history as well, you'll need a third set of sensibilities.)
OC--
Sigaba,Quote:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "best"? Do you mean:
1. Programs with the best reputations in the fields you mentioned among those who work and study in those fields?
2. Programs with the best reputations that will help you land an academic job? (If you want to get an academic job as a military historian in the United States you will want to start managing your expectations now.)
3. Programs that offer the best fit for your anticipated areas of study in terms of specific faculty members, research resources, and available economic support? (If chemistry and rapport are important to you, you'll want to make sure you can get along with prospective professors before you make a commitment to work with them. But I'm not bitter.)
4. Programs that will best prepare you to think, to read, and to write like an academic or a military historian?
IMO, the last question is crucial. In my experience (and based on my research) academic historians and military historians have fundamentally different approaches historiography. IMO, you may best be served by mastering both approaches. (And if you study American history as well, you'll need a third set of sensibilities.)
At the risk of appearing a dullard, "All of the above."
First, I'm not interested in *just* military per se. I envision myself as one of those perusing the dusty stacks, looking at (say) defense policy in the 1920s, not necessarily looking at how changes in the machine gun resulted in changes in composition of the infantry squad. Of course, I do like "raw" *modern* military history, *too.*
Second, at the risk of appearing snarky, I think it's pretty well-established that the programs with the best reputations in the field, at least in the US, and at least are those at Ohio State and UNC. I would be particularly interested in learning more about programs outside the US, because I'm less familiar with those.
Third, my primary concern is indeed landing a *job* as an academic. I realize the academic job market is never a good one, although I *am* bad at managing expectations. Still, that is my *primary* goal - a job. Of course, if I got a job at a think tank, or some other non-academic entity strictly construed, I wouldn't complain. But those are plum jobs in my opinion, and one needs to be realistic (ie, as you said, manage expectations).
Fourth, indeed, I'm looking for faculty who can serve as good mentors. I've had my fair share of bitterness, too, in my prior endeavors in the academy, and would love to know who possesses a reputation as someone who can - and has - shepherd students along the way. I realize I have to do my own paddling up river - but I prefer at a minimum that the paddling not be obstructed, and ideally be aided, by someone I like or, at a minimum, respect. A reputation as someone who has mentored a lot of doctoral students successfully is a good indicator of a good mentor.
Fifth, I'd like to be a diplomatic/military historian. I don't have a great (any, actually) interest in, say, post-modern approaches to the social construction of gender identity (to be snarky once more). I see myself looking at dead people who (stereotypically, at least) wore tweed. Whether I have the sensibilities to be a historian, I regretfully know not. I have post-graduate experience, alas in other fields, with only minimal historical exposure in that post-graduate experience, and my undergraduate experience amounted to a - admittedly good - year-long survey of Western civilization. But the short answer is: I like to think I'm smart, and yes, I think I can think like a historian, and for what it's worth I've read Marc Bloch's short tract on "The Historian's Craft" and enjoyed roughly half of it, but I apologize I cannot give a more definitive answer.
I don't feel I've answered your questions adequately, but I *greatly* appreciate your posing them.
Finally, my impression is that the UK and Canada (New Zealand and Australia too?) are more amenable to diplomatic and military history. Is this something with which you're familiar?
Thanks
OC
You want to study history but...
[1.] You're opting out of a good opportunity to refine your research skills.
Have you taken the opportunity to consult all of the following resources?Quote:
Originally Posted by outletclock
- America: History and Life and its companion Historical Abstracts
- The American Historical Association's Directory of History Departments and Organizations in the United States and Canada
- The Society of Military Historians' directory
- The professional academic journals that specialize in your areas of interest, including (but not limited to):
[2.] Your efforts at 'snark' may be sending mixed messages about your desire for guidance.
- American Historical Review
- Armed Forces and Society
- Diplomatic History
- European History Quarterly
- International Security
- Journal of American History
- Journal of Cold War Studies
- Journal of International History
- Journal of Military History
- Journal of Modern History
- Naval War College Review
- Reviews in American History
Quote:
Originally Posted by outletclock
Bluntly, if the primacy of those institutions is so well established, then why have you asked the question twice? (And what about Kansas State, the University of Kansas, Yale University, The Forty Acres:D, and Texas A&M :mad::p.)Quote:
Originally Posted by outletclock
[3.] You appear more interesting in history as a job than as a profession.
You may be putting the cart in front of the horse by thinking about the job you want before acquiring the professional skills and knowledge you'll need in a very competitive market. While one may scoff now at "post-modern approaches to the social construction of gender identity," one might be unpleasantly surprised when asked during a job talk by a senior historians questions such as:Quote:
Originally Posted by outletclock
The bottom line is that the days of the gentleman historian are long gone and are unlikely to return. Ever. For better and for worse, the professional environment is an arena of vigorous informed (and sometimes bitter) debates. Military historians have paid a terrible price for not taking these debates seriously, not the least because the Ivory Tower is filled with scholars who do.*
- So what?/ Why should trees die for your ideas?
- Where are the women?
- What is the fantasy?
- What classes would you like to teach?
- How would you relate your study to the work of [insert theorist's name here] and [insert cutting edge historian's name here]?
__________________________________________________ ____________
* John Lynn, "The Embattled Future of Academic Military History, Journal of Military History 61:4 (October, 1997): 777-789, provides some useful insight. YMMV.
I am familiar with some of these, but not all of these. I confess that I certainly have not consulted all of the mentioned resources, but I thank you (sincerely) for bringing them to my attention. And I do intend to make an excursion to the local university library to gain a better sense of editorial boards, who's publishing what, etc. In other words, to do what you're suggesting I do. :)Quote:
Is your frame of mind helping you to achieve your goals?
You want to study history but...
[1.] You're opting out of a good opportunity to refine your research skills.
Have you taken the opportunity to consult all of the following resources?
* America: History and Life and its companion Historical Abstracts
* The American Historical Association's Directory of History Departments and Organizations in the United States and Canada
* The Society of Military Historians' directory
* The professional academic journals that specialize in your areas of interest, including (but not limited to):
*
* American Historical Review
* Armed Forces and Society
* Diplomatic History
* European History Quarterly
* International Security
* Journal of American History
* Journal of Cold War Studies
* Journal of International History
* Journal of Military History
* Journal of Modern History
* Naval War College Review
* Reviews in American History
Quote:
[2.] Your efforts at 'snark' may be sending mixed messages about your desire for guidance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by outletclock: Would members be willing to give their opinions on the best diplomatic and military history programs in the English-speaking domain (e.g., US, UK, and Canada?
I asked the first time because my additional sources beyond this board may be wrong, or incomplete. So I wanted additional input. Asking a second time may have been unnecessary - I did not intend to send mixed messages, and am not really trying to be snarky. I appreciate your noting the schools you do (even if I had to Google "The Forth Acres." :)). And once more, I am interested in learning more about schools outside the US, because (1) they appear to be more receptive to the forms of history I am interested in pursuing (although I may be wrong), and (2) being a US resident, it seems natural that I'm going to have a US-centric view that might be usefully corrected.Quote:
By Siqaba. Second, at the risk of appearing snarky, I think it's pretty well-established that the programs with the best reputations in the field, at least in the US, and at least are those at Ohio State and UNC. Bluntly, if the primacy of those institutions is so well established, then why have you asked the question twice? (And what about Kansas State, the University of Kansas, Yale University, The Forty Acres, and Texas A&M).
Third, my primary concern is indeed landing a *job* as an academic. I realize the academic job market is never a good one, although I *am* bad at managing expectations. Still, that is my *primary* goal - a job. Of course, if I got a job at a think tank, or some other non-academic entity strictly construed, I wouldn't complain. But those are plum jobs in my opinion, and one needs to be realistic (ie, as you said, manage expectations).Quote:
[3.] You appear more interesting in history as a job than as a profession.
Fourth, indeed, I'm looking for faculty who can serve as good mentors. I've had my fair share of bitterness, too, in my prior endeavors in the academy, and would love to know who possesses a reputation as someone who can - and has - shepherd students along the way. I realize I have to do my own paddling up river - but I prefer at a minimum that the paddling not be obstructed, and ideally be aided, by someone I like or, at a minimum, respect. A reputation as someone who has mentored a lot of doctoral students successfully is a good indicator of a good mentor.
Fifth, I'd like to be a diplomatic/military historian. I don't have a great (any, actually) interest in, say, post-modern approaches to the social construction of gender identity (to be snarky once more). I see myself looking at dead people who (stereotypically, at least) wore tweed. Whether I have the sensibilities to be a historian, I regretfully know not. I have post-graduate experience, alas in other fields, with only minimal historical exposure in that post-graduate experience, and my undergraduate experience amounted to a - admittedly good - year-long survey of Western civilization. But the short answer is: I like to think I'm smart, and yes, I think I can think like a historian, and for what it's worth I've read Marc Bloch's short tract on "The Historian's Craft" and enjoyed roughly half of it, but I apologize I cannot give a more definitive answer.
I think you're right, from what little I know, that military historians may have divorced themselves from the profession somewhat by not embracing fads (or perhaps less pejoratively, trends). That said, I'm an entering (actually, a potentially entering) student, not someone with a doctorate in hand entering the job market. Perhaps this is a naive view to harbor - and I do recognize the days of the gentleman historian are long gone - but I'd rather concern myself about marketing myself a bit further down the road. For now, I'd rather concern myself with getting into "the best program" *for me*, and then concern myself with doing the work *I* find *most satisfying* - with the appropriate amount of preoccupation with the job market, and then concern myself with answering the tough questions asked during job talks. I don't dismiss your prompts - they are legitimate and appear born of (hard-won?) experience - but I also think that right now, once more, the appropriate focus is on fit between myself and a program/mentor.Quote:
You may be putting the cart in front of the horse by thinking about the job you want before acquiring the professional skills and knowledge you'll need in a very competitive market. While one may scoff now at "post-modern approaches to the social construction of gender identity," one might be unpleasantly surprised when asked during a job talk by a senior historians questions such as:
* So what?/ Why should trees die for your ideas?
* Where are the women?
* What is the fantasy?
* What classes would you like to teach?
* How would you relate your study to the work of [insert theorist's name here] and [insert cutting edge historian's name here]?
The bottom line is that the days of the gentleman historian are long gone and are unlikely to return. Ever. For better and for worse, the professional environment is an arena of vigorous informed (and sometimes bitter) debates. Military historians have paid a terrible price for not taking these debates seriously, not the least because the Ivory Tower is filled with scholars who do.
Appreciation for your thorough response,
OC
At the risk of reaching outside the realm of what you really want to know, might I suggest that instead of looking at history programs, you might want to look at Political Science programs. Your research interests (i.e. defense policy) seem to line up a lot better with Political Science than with History. It is true that most PolSci's are not going to be as archival as perhaps you seem to want to be, but pretty much every academic spends hours pouring over dusty tomes. The main difference, IMHO, between history and PolSci is that history tries to explain individual events completely, whereas PolSci is looking for patterns which can mostly explain most things. Both of them, however, require a very extensive study of history. Indeed, there are many excellent studies of military history done by political scientists.
History may be where it is at for you, but it is something to consider.