I never ceased to be amazed by how many people
cue in on one, to them, hot button word and then allow that to skew or even derail their comprehension of the actual point of a written piece.
Sigh. As they say, the internet is not a perfect medium...
Perhaps. We'll never know...
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Originally Posted by
Tom Odom
The short answer is the same if it had incorporated the same material. regardless of title...
Where's Harry Turtledove when we need him... :D
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...the strategy at least as I read it said we--the US--are the stand alone imperial power in the world. I think anyone would have much trouble selling that inside the US and we got a pretty good slice of what the world reaction would be from JJ.
Interesting. I read JJs comment with interest also. FWIW, I didn't take Steve's premise that way -- perhaps because I'm in broad agreement. In any event, I have no doubt many could and some would desire to take it that way as the Great American Empire, Act II. I just don't see that happening nor do I believe that most in the world, given a little reflection time would.
The British -- like most in Europe -- after all are basically Arab centric and goodness knows we've given them enough provocation to dislike us intensely so JJs reaction was unsurprising . It was also essentially fair; I could quibble a bit about events and interpretations but on balance, I understand where he's coming from.
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It would I suspect be somewhat different if it had incorporated more of what you put into it. A measured response is essentially a middle of the road strategy and one we are fairly comfortable with although we have had aberrations.
Possibly my error as I assumed given what I know of Steve's background and his writing, it was sort of implied...
As for middle of the road, yep -- and most Americans are essentially moderates; that's why it's acceptable...
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I do not, however, agree with the blanket assessment that everyone hates us and always will. That is a simplistic and flawed assessment. Everyone one does not hate us. Steve Blair is correct that we often want them all to love us. There have been periods where anti-American sentiments have run high. We are in one now. We have had periods where pro-American sentiments were strong. What really counts is when and where our interests and our pursuit of those interests are acceptable or in favor with other players on the strategic stage and where and when they are not.
Hate is a bad word, Penta used it and I did not. However, I didn't correct his over statement to a more accurate "while a very few hate us, many more are in a state of mild dislike, distrust or envy and the majority of the world doesn't care much unless we do something that effects them personally. the bad news is that due to our size, sometimes our minor efforts create a ripple effect that can exacerbate their perception into a state of active dislike..." or words to that effect. I'm wordy enough without over editing someone else's basically correct comment. :o
You are, of course, correct in saying that we are not resoundingly hated -- I've said here and elsewhere that dislike of the US today is not nearly as bad as it was during and directly after Viet Nam -- and there are some American who want "them to like us" (though not many IMO, most could care less). Still, other than that, Penta's points were valid, I thought.
To you too -- do you have an alternative?
Honestly I've spent most of my life in the midwest
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Originally Posted by
Penta
Ken brought up a point I've been chewing on since I read it, about how the negativity seems focused in the North.
I live and work in New Jersey; my extended family is almost all in Boston or the near suburbs of Boston; my GF lives out in Chicagoland. Contrary to what Tequila says, I don't watch Fox News, haven't in years and years.
And the feeling I get among those I talk to is one of...Not Carteresque malaise. Worse. One of "The world seriously hates us now, but there is nothing remotely practical that will change that fact." Add to that a fair helping of "We. Are. Totally. Screwed." Economically, in foreign affairs, and just generally.
It cuts across party/generational/social lines, too. Hawk, dove, Republican, Democrat, old, young...It's a constant. This broad sense of, if not "We're doomed", then one of "We'll never recover."
But it doesn't seem to have penetrated the South; it's a Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest thing (and I can't say much about farther west than that).
I can't figure out -why-, but it feels like what Ken says has something to it - not because of the weather, but for some reason I can't grasp.
What's the difference? What has the Northern part of the country seemingly in need of mass prescriptions of Prozac, while the South (and maybe the West) doesn't have the same gloomy feelings about the world?
and throughout that time I've seen very little really bring the spirits down.
We had floods, ice, economic stress, but we just keep on smiling. I actually think it has more to do with the fact that most southerners and midwest don't really pay too much attention to what is said by who, when, and how. We just tend to take one day at a time and pretty much expect life to suck sometimes so we're never really surprised when it does.:D