Leaving the Green Zone

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05-09-2008
SWJED

Leaving the Green Zone

Leaving the Green Zone - by Sam Brannen, SWJ Blog

Quote:

In the middle of Baghdad sits one of the United States’ greatest strategic liabilities in the Iraq war: a four square-mile swath of territory called the Green Zone (the “International Zone” when in polite company). Still crowded with the gaudy war memorials and palaces of Saddam’s regime that are too big to tear down, it is for many Iraqis the icon of U.S. occupation and a telling window into a post-surge security environment that looks more likely to loop back than move forward. The onetime seat of Paul Bremer and the Coalition Provisional Authority, the Green Zone is now shared by the sprawling Embassy Baghdad, the core of Iraq’s central government, and thousands of international contractors, including the infamous Blackwater security details. Green Zone denizens live in trailers, sometimes stacked one on top of the other, accustomed to the blare of the incoming round siren and ducking for cover in evenly spaced cement bunkers that are a bizarre juxtaposition to swimming pools, palm trees, and marble buildings.

Outside the Green Zone, American troops are fighting pitched battles in the high-density urban slums of Sadr City. Their objective is to reduce the mortar and rocket fire that has lately rained down on the Green Zone. By installing a massive cement wall to cut Sadr City in half, U.S. forces are attempting to corral militiamen and mortar teams out of range. As soldiers build the Sadr City wall, they fight for every inch in a slow grind that recalls trench warfare, taking casualties and under constant fire.

It is worth asking whether the Green Zone would be attacked absent such a pronounced U.S. presence tucked behind elaborate security checkpoints and layered defenses...
05-10-2008
negotiator6

Green Zone-Target #1

I think most who agree, the Green Zone is symbolic for several reasons mentioned in the lead comment. But, as times go by, the Green Zone will be an iconic symbol of American presence in Iraq. And as such, will become the target of opportunity when US forces begin to retrograde. The insurgents have the elevation and direction...all they need is a few moments to set up..with sandstorms and downsizing...it will be only time when daily attacks on the 1 billion dollar symbol will become a daily event...... any volunteers from State?
05-11-2008
Mark O'Neill

What happens to the Green Zone

actually makes two tenths of no difference to the rest of Iraq and its stability. Frankly, concerns about IDF into the Green Zone are of great interest to those (largely western) people who live and work there, and of little significance to the majority of the people of Iraq going about there daily lives (except perhaps those militias who are sending down the rockets).

The Green Zone has become the modern equivalent of one of Saddam's Palaces - 'real Iraqis' know that it exists, but most do not see it and can only guess at what goes in inside it.

It is my contention that worry about the IDF problem into the Green Zone is a uniquely coalition centric problem. Focus on it in the media portrays a picture of increasing or heightened danger in Iraq that quite frankly is not reflective of many / most other places and trends in the country at the moment.

Being a glass is half full kind of a guy, I would suggest there is probably also also an upside - every time IDF comes in is an opportunity to locate and wack a few more irreconcilables. I imagine that the attrition rate for IDF protaginists vs coalition casualties in disproportinately in the blue forces favour. Whilst this does not 'win' us the COIN fight, it does address Ralph Peter's 'In praise of attrition' treatise.....:wry:

If we were really worried about the problem we would simply distribute the functions currently occuring in the IZ nodally around Iraq in the many other FOBs and COBS we have (the old defensive measure of dispersion) and use our modern communications technologies to manage the processes through a distributed network. We just choose to operate this way because we have a 19th century approach to using 21st Century technological capabilities.
05-11-2008
Ken White

Perpetuation of perpetualities...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark O'Neill

actually makes two tenths of no difference to the rest of Iraq and its stability...

The Green Zone has become the modern equivalent of one of Saddam's Palaces - 'real Iraqis' know that it exists, but most do not see it and can only guess at what goes in inside it.

Which is why the occupation of all his old haunts way back when was IMO really dumbb -- with two 'b's...

No matter, we did and we're there, whether we stay or go at this point is, as you say, sorta immaterial.

Quote:

...We just choose to operate this way because we have a 19th century approach to using 21st Century technological capabilities.

I applaud your generosity. I'd have said 18th Century -- Marlborough comes to mind... :D
05-11-2008
Rank amateur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken White

Which is why the occupation of all his old haunts way back when was IMO really dumbb -- with two 'b's...

We agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark O'Neill

The Green Zone has become the modern equivalent of one of Saddam's Palaces - 'real Iraqis' know that it exists, but most do not see it and can only guess at what goes in inside it.

Isn't that a problem? Isn't it easier to build capacity for a democracy than a mystery?
05-12-2008
Ron Humphrey

Maybe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rank amateur

Isn't that a problem? Isn't it easier to build capacity for a democracy than a mystery?

But if you look at it in light of our own democracy except for what they have to pay in taxes, get in subsidies, or see in the media, how much do you think the average American really gives a second thought to what is actually going on in DC?
05-12-2008
bluegreencody

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey

But if you look at it in light of our own democracy except for what they have to pay in taxes, get in subsidies, or see in the media, how much do you think the average American really gives a second thought to what is actually going on in DC?

I think a lot of people do. All the same, I bet if 1/4th of the U.S. population lived in D.C, as a quarter of Iraqis live in Baghdad, people would care expodentially more. Correspondingly, why haven't we razed Abu Ghraib yet (as well as these stupid palaces)? It would be the biggest party of the year, way bigger than the Asian Cup...
05-12-2008
Ron Humphrey

Not so sure

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluegreencody

I think a lot of people do. All the same, I bet if 1/4th of the U.S. population lived in D.C, as a quarter of Iraqis live in Baghdad, people would care expodentially more. Correspondingly, why haven't we razed Abu Ghraib yet (as well as these stupid palaces)? It would be the biggest party of the year, way bigger than the Asian Cup...

I think if you were to look at almost any big city here the people pay even less attention to what happens in their local government buildings. That's one of the benefits of living in a country where you don't have to spend every minute worrying about what those in governance are doing because by and large you elected them, they represent you, and as long as you can get to and from work and your kids can get to and from school without some %$@# from your neighbor countries trying to blow them up it all gravy.

There is such a thing as worrying too much about the perceptions of a populace whose entire world is still in flux. Yes you respect history but you also have to set the example about what really shouldn't be concerns in a country governed by the people for the people. It's a mutual learning experience.

And in regard to those palaces, they may have been built for the wrong reasons but the Iraqis neverless paid for them with their blood and sweat and as such wouldn't it make more sense to make them work for the people rather then to just raze them.

And lets not forget that there are those in close proximity to Iraq who would like nothing better than the ability to spin exactly that type of thing.

I realize the inclination to do these type things but I think it's about time we remembered that we've come a lot further here when we work to create and build then through destruction. It's a lesson I would hope we have learned not to forget.
05-12-2008
Rank amateur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey

But if you look at it in light of our own democracy except for what they have to pay in taxes, get in subsidies, or see in the media, how much do you think the average American really gives a second thought to what is actually going on in DC?

I'll leave the issue of what motivates someone to fight and possibly die for their country to those who actually do it, but as an ad guy I'll say that if Iraqis feel "warmier and fuzzier" toward their tribe/religion/ethnic group than they feel towards their government, building the IA to the level we'd like is going to be difficult.

(I agree with your comments on building, but there are obvious problems when you build on a weak foundation.)
05-12-2008
Ken White

One thing I've noticed is that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rank amateur

...
(I agree with your comments on building, but there are obvious problems when you build on a weak foundation.)

when one is building in a given location, the strength or weakness of the site to support a foundation is pretty much immutable and dependent upon that site one may or may not achieve optimum results.

I don't think that means one shouldn't try...