How to create a war game

Printable View

01-23-2009
selil

How to create a war game

I have a lot of theoretical knowledge of game theory (well a bit), but I have zero idea how to create a military war game.

I want to create a table top exercise to examine a set of problems or issues regarding techniques/tactics.

I want to format the tool so that anybody in the military or associated with the military would be familiar with the idea.

I have visited the great global google goodness and came away knowing a lot about dungeons and dragons and not a whole lot about how to create a war game. I'm not interested in entertaining anybody but examining thinking processes.

Likely this is another situation where I don't know what I don't know so I can't use key words I'm unaware of to accomplish the search. Any help would be truly appreciated.
01-23-2009
Entropy

Not sure what scope you're looking at, but have you checked out TACOPS?
01-24-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropy

Not sure what scope you're looking at, but have you checked out TACOPS?

The problem is that is a simulation and I'm looking for a table top type game.

I want to run a war game/exercise with evaluation points to gather evidence/information on how people would do something (purposely vague). DHS runs these kinds of games, but I've never figured out how they set them up.
01-24-2009
Entropy

Maybe something like ASL?
01-24-2009
marct

Quote:

Originally Posted by selil

I want to run a war game/exercise with evaluation points to gather evidence/information on how people would do something (purposely vague). DHS runs these kinds of games, but I've never figured out how they set them up.

Sam, shoot me an email on what you are looking at. I've actually designed (and published, for my sins) about 10 war games.
01-24-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropy

Maybe something like ASL?

Thanks! That looks interesting.
01-24-2009
William F. Owen

Quote:

Originally Posted by selil

I want to create a table top exercise to examine a set of problems or issues regarding techniques/tactics.

The ones with military credibility for Land Warfare, are

Steel beasts
TACOPS4 - Was OK, but it now pretty dated.
Combat Missions (CMAK and CMBB)
Combat Missions Shock Force

Also look up VBS and VBS2, which mixes "game play" with person in the loop simulation. The ADF has actually used this as an Ops Analysis tool.

Played head-to-head, all offer a great deal of utility for professional education. The Australians use all the above. For examing tactical doctrine, these games are useful , but have limits. Once you are aware of those, they are excellent.

Quote:

I have visited the great global google goodness and came away knowing a lot about dungeons and dragons and not a whole lot about how to create a war game. I'm not interested in entertaining anybody but examining thinking processes.

Dungeons and dragons has some very solid grounding in tactical doctrine!
My interest is in them as a training, education and development tool. There are huge tensions between a commercially viable game, and a good military tool, but they are no irreconcilable given a bit of third party development.
01-24-2009
J Wolfsberger

It sounds like you want to focus on thinking processes, not the impact of doctrine or capability. If so, you may want to look at Kriegspeil. The board games that came from Avalon Hill and SPI are good, but also rule intensive.

If you want to do something computer based, check out VR Forces from MAK.
01-24-2009
Rex Brynen

Quote:

Originally Posted by William F. Owen

Dungeons and dragons has some very solid grounding in tactical doctrine!

Damn—my halfling rogue read this, and now wants to volunteer for Afghanistan...
01-24-2009
J Wolfsberger

Remind him

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Brynen

Damn—my halfling rogue read this, and now wants to volunteer for Afghanistan...

It's old school. i.e. If he's attacked by a troll with a battle axe, he'll have to run like hell, he can't just hit "reset." :D
01-24-2009
Rex Brynen

Sam:

Our very own BayonetBrant is a commercial wargame designer (Bayonet Games), so you might want to drop him a PM.

You might also try to get hold of:

Peter Perla, The Art of Wargaming: A Guide for Professionals and Hobbyists.

James Dunnigan, Wargames Handbook, Third Edition: How to Play and Design Commercial and Professional Wargames. An earlier version of this is online here.
01-24-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by William F. Owen

Dungeons and dragons has some very solid grounding in tactical doctrine!
My interest is in them as a training, education and development tool. There are huge tensions between a commercially viable game, and a good military tool, but they are no irreconcilable given a bit of third party development.

I hadn't actually thought of it that way. Thank you very much. One of my graduate students has a friend who runs a D&D type game store maybe I should talk to him.

Great advice thank you very much...
01-24-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Wolfsberger

It sounds like you want to focus on thinking processes, not the impact of doctrine or capability. If so, you may want to look at Kriegspeil. The board games that came from Avalon Hill and SPI are good, but also rule intensive.

If you want to do something computer based, check out VR Forces from MAK.

I really want to stay away from computer based systems though in some ways that may be easier. Thank you for the link that will help enormously.
01-24-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Brynen

You might also try to get hold of:

Peter Perla, The Art of Wargaming: A Guide for Professionals and Hobbyists.

James Dunnigan, Wargames Handbook, Third Edition: How to Play and Design Commercial and Professional Wargames. An earlier version of this is online here.

Already bought both books and waiting on delivery. Should be here today I hope. I got a couple others on math of gaming, etc...

I'll contact BayonetBrant , heck maybe he'll want what I'm developing.
01-26-2009
Steve Blair

I've done some work on games (both board and RPG) over the years as well. I'd be happy to help.

And don't ignore the role-playing game just because it looks flip. Some of those systems have very good tactical models built in, and they tend to be easier to tweak on the fly than a more rigid board-based system.
01-26-2009
Van

Sam,
Strategy Page is run by old school wargamers. I'm pretty sure they wrote a 'how-to' book. I think the guys' names are James Dunnigan and Austin Bay.

Dunnigan's book : Wargames Handbook, Third Edition: How to Play and Design Commercial and Professional Wargames.
01-26-2009
BayonetBrant

Quote:

Originally Posted by selil

Already bought both books and waiting on delivery. Should be here today I hope. I got a couple others on math of gaming, etc...

I'll contact BayonetBrant , heck maybe he'll want what I'm developing.

Contact away! (Sorry, but I'm not around much on weekends. SWJ is 'required' reading at work, but I'm trying to keep the computer in the bag on the weekends these days and spend more time with family).

One thing I've noticed is that although you specified a 'table top' game, there were a lot of computer game suggestions.

Other books to recommend:
Raph Koster's A Theory of Fun For Game Design
and anything by Salen & Zimmerman

Also, Dunnigan's book is available online, for free: http://www.hyw.com/Books/WargamesHandbook/Contents.htm

PM me, or email me, and I'll see what I can do to help out. This is kinda my schtick :)
01-26-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayonetBrant

Other books to recommend:
Raph Koster's A Theory of Fun For Game Design
and anything by Salen & Zimmerman

Also, Dunnigan's book is available online, for free: http://www.hyw.com/Books/WargamesHandbook/Contents.htm

PM me, or email me, and I'll see what I can do to help out. This is kinda my schtick :)

I got Dunnigans book so I'm working my way through that. I have a couple other authors that I'm reading too. The subject is a LOT deeper than I was thinking originally (of course). I'm expanding what I was thinking with the several on (off) line suggestions for how-to and readings.
02-03-2009
ericmwalters

Tabletop wargame resources

There are quite a variety of tabletop formats for wargaming, so you'll have to be a bit more specific.

There are "seminar-style games" and the best most recent resource for that is the book WARGAMING FOR LEADERS: STRATEGIC DECISIONMAKING FROM THE BATTLEFIELD TO THE BOARDROOM by Mark Herman, Mark Frost, and Robert Kurz. This complements Perla's book very well and updates it with a great many examples, mostly dealing with business applications.

There are "staff wargames" dating back to the 19th century. One can find miniatures game rules from Fletcher Pratt, H.G. Wells, and others with a bit of hunting. Modern systems work well, but the investment in figurines/gear can be prohibitive to many. Perhaps there is no better entry venue than John Bobek's excellent book, THE GAMES OF WAR: A TREASURY OF RULES FOR BATTLES WITH TOY SOLDIERS, SHIPS, AND PLANES. Strongly recommended for neophytes and novices to start with in this genre.

There are commercial board wargames of a wide variety. Best portal to get into that is the CONSIMWORLD website at http://www.consimworld.com. These are readymade games that, for a minimum of investment, can get you into tabletop gaming quickly if you can manage the rules. You will need a bit of coaching/mentoring to make it a smooth entry, however. If you aren't careful, you can get in way over your head given the dense rules and arcane topics that are often out there.

One should also mention the Role Playing Games of the Dungeons and Dragons variety and there's plenty of those dealing with just about every subject under the sun. Again, having a coach/mentor is highly recommended to make entry into it as smooth as possible.

Much depends on your personal objectives. What might those be? What do you hope to get out of the experience? What kinds of things are you interested in learning?
02-03-2009
selil

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericmwalters

Much depends on your personal objectives. What might those be? What do you hope to get out of the experience? What kinds of things are you interested in learning?

I've been deep into Dunnigan and others this last two weeks.

My goals or objectives? Two fold. First, my dissertation involves a revolutionary method to wage cyber warfare. The use of a new tactical and strategic planning tool that gets a cyber adversary inside the OODA loop of a target. I need a tool that tests the cognitive capability of protagonists when considering the objectives and tools available. Second, the tool needs to be flexible enough to be used with large groups of people and robust enough to withstand a variety of thinking strategies. Inside and outside of the tool. When done the tool should be a good way for training cyber response plans across organizations.

Oh and it should be fun. :)