The United Kingdom has declared Independence from the European Union..... aka Euro-Commies. The Brave British citizens stood up to massive globalist propaganda and declared their freedom.
Hail Britannia:)
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The United Kingdom has declared Independence from the European Union..... aka Euro-Commies. The Brave British citizens stood up to massive globalist propaganda and declared their freedom.
Hail Britannia:)
http://brownpundits.blogspot.com/201...story-and.html
Interesting times..
BUT WAIT....at what cost?...they complained about EU yearly fees but the value loses of the FTSE yesterday equaled 40 years of EU payments........and it literally wiped out UK/US pensioner investments along the way and drove up UK gasoline prices by 10%
Google released the top ten Google searches after the Leave won.....the top ones were
1. What is the EU
2.How many countries are in it
3. What do we get from the EU
4. what is Article 50
Then Scotland is leaving within the next two years
Then N.Irland raises it head again
Then the French at the Calais crossing stated......start your own border controls now in Dover not in France and take the refugees camped here with you
Then if you see the voting breakdown the over 65s voted to Leave and the majority of the youth 18-30 voted to stay thus the older generation deprived the younger generation that opportunity of living and working in Europe......
THEN Leave argued investments would continue to flow into UK...THEN interviewed large companies to include Airbus UK stated when we leave there will be massive reviews of investments and we know what that means AND all major US corporate headquarters setup in the UK as they speak English and were in the EU have started indicating a relocation rethink...
THEN the London Banking City will be moved as they can no longer deal in EU funds and bonds since they are not a member.....estimated job loss...100,000
THEN what will the border look like between Ireland and N.Ireland
THEN..THEN and more then......
Then this headline this morning;
Cornwall votes for Brexit and then pleads to keep EU funding
Cornwall receives millions of pounds in EU subsidies every year
Cornwall received over 675M Euros in support subsidies from 2007-13
NOW they are complaining well the Leave told us the EU funding will continue....even if we vote against
THEN the UK is waking up today to realize that hundreds of EU jobs and EU Parliament positions and their jobs are gone in two years AND that they will need a visa to travel to say Spain where they have second homes and by the way their NHS healthcare coverage will not be accepted in the EU...
BTW...if one looks at the amounts of EU subsidies for low income rural areas that flowed into the areas that voted to Leave....it is simply amazing what the amounts are...so yes they voted to Leave BUT kneecapped themselves in the process
Appears that the Brits had simply no idea about what the heck the EU was and or just how much subsidy support they did receive.....
WHAT is amazing is that when one analyzes the reasons why Leave won...much support came from rural and or towns/villages that had high unemployment, poor schools and a history of over 40 years of neglect by the UK central government as everything in the UK is driven out of London.
So in fact it was a major slap in the face against "poor governance" and the EU took the place of London.
Now the next day they are fully realizing exactly what they did in fact do to themselves both in driving the UK apart as well as their own financial future...
BUT what do we hear from the Leave politicians...hey we want a Norway model..forgetting that Norway must adhere to EU regs and laws, that they must adhere to certain levels of EU control AND they must pay an annual fee that ain't cheap AND have no vote in what the EU does....
So having "won back" their government and country appears to me to have been a "hallow victory"...
BTW...during the Leave interviews yesterday the Leave side started hinting and backing away from their constant statements we will trigger Article 50 immediately and replaced it with well maybe triggering in 2018 and goin into effect in 2020 thus continuing to eat their "cake" and still complain.....
That was countered by the EU which stated the reforms promised to UK prior to the referendum are no longer valid and they want the process to start immediately in order to assure the financial markets that this will not drag out over years.....
THEN Leave countered.....you cannot tell us when to trigger Article 50.....EU Commission response read the fine print of Article 50 and what the Leave side failed to understand even written in English was the simple fact that the EU envisioned a government coming in and submitting Article 50.
EU commission legal beagles now state that the Referendum supported by the civil society is a valid replacement to triggering Article 50 as the Leave clearly put to the people stay or leave and the people ran to Leave...thus fulfilling Article 50.
So if this was a victory I truly would hate to see what defeat looks like.......
BTW...EU is indicating that the negotiations with UK will be hard in order to not cause a domino effect......meaning others than want to potentially leave believing they will get a good deal when they leave.....
What is amazing is that those that want to leave have profited the most money wise from the EU rural development funds to the tune of BILLIONS......
@Outlaw: Lots of good questions and points.
Indeed, finally a poorer DisUnited Kingdom or possible Little Britain will likely be able to have migration and taxation without representation...
The whole experiment will be interesting to watch from a macro and micro point of view. So far I have a hard time to figure out the plan of the Leavers, but surely there is a clear and logical one after their honest and thoughtful campaign.
Anyway the best of luck. Hopefully only Will Griggs will be on fire in NI and an eventual exit by Scotland will not cause too much economic pain on both sides of the border.
I wrote the below in response to a SWC member's question, what did I think today? Today I have read several good commentaries and may in time answer some of the points made here.
Greetings from a slightly bewildered UK, everyone expresses surprise at the referendum result. A friend in the Labour Party was at the count in Birmingham, they were all astounded and realise lots of re-thinking is needed.
I did not stay up through the night, but watched one hour of reporting at 0730hrs and watched David Cameron's statement.
What is really odd is that last night, after the polls had closed, Nigel Farage (UKIP) stated Remain had won by 4%. I did not watch the polls during the campaign.
I have for weeks thought that the Remain campaign could backfire. One, the electorate could use the referendum to bash all the politicians and the interventions of outsiders, big business and others was counter-productive. Then the Remain campaign stupidly relied on a mix of dire threats, notably economic forecasts and simply "trust us".
It was clear two weeks ago that the Labour Party, who had IMHO conducted a lacklustre campaign, were finding their supporters on the doorstep strongly opposed to Remain. Yes, immigration was one issue and more so in areas where there was little diversity or where recent immigration was concentrated.
Personally I wanted to Exit, even if those campaigning did not appeal to me. I have regretted for many years voting Yes in the 1975 Referendum, on remaining a member of the EEC.
Put simply I did not want to be part of a European super-state, which is the EU's over-riding objective. The EEC morphed into the EU and simply marched on-wards minus any democratic mandate, let alone accountability to the people. Nor has the EU been that successful, including in the security field - where it should not have ventured - and NATO is more than adequate, with faults.
My reasons are political, not economic, but it is quite clear the Euro has been destroying the economies of several Southern / Mediterranean members. There remains the prospect of one or more defaulting on loans, on a scale far greater than Greece.
Yes there will be a long-term price to pay. One that is not very clear; will the EU "play ball" or be hostile?
Domestically I am not convinced Scotland really wants to exit the UK. That could alter if the negotiations with the EU are painful. Northern Ireland is in far weaker position, in part due its precarious economy and the strength of the Unionist vote.
Who will be the next Conservative leader? I have no idea. A lot will depend on who the MPs think can win the next General Election, which now could be sooner rather than the scheduled 2020.
Finally I do rather like David Betz's (Kings War Studies) recent WoTR column and this passage in particular:Link: http://warontherocks.com/2016/06/why...it-i-cant-say/Quote:
The European Union is a kind of Titanic. In the minds of its designers it was supposed to be impregnable to icebergs — in fact they reckoned that the striking of icebergs and ensuing moments of crisis were vital inflection points in which further steps towards political integration might be achieved. Most Remainers proclaim they want to stay in it to reform it, which they cannot do. Some seem genuinely to think everything is a-okay, which it is certainly not. The debate in Britain is essentially about whether it is better to stay on the sinking ship until it sinks or to jump before it sinks. Either way it is sunk.
Best wishes and thanks for reading.
One of the few measured commentaries yesterday:Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36625209Quote:
Historian and constitutional expert Lord Peter Hennessy looks back at British history to evaluate the significance of the referendum result. The Attlee Professor of Contemporary British History at Queen Mary University of London was speaking to the BBC's Diplomatic Correspondent James Robbins.
One of his passages:One of better journalists who actually goes outside the London "bubble" for The Guardian:Quote:
The only thing comparable in my lifetime is the end of the British Empire, which, like this, was a huge geopolitical shift. But getting rid of the British Empire was done over many, many years and by and large in the time control of the British government of the day. It left very few scars on us.But this is sudden. This is guillotine time. This is quite extraordinary and in peacetime British history quite unprecedented.
Link:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster?Quote:
Brexit is about more than the EU: it’s about class, inequality, and voters feeling excluded from politics. So how do we even begin to put Britain the right way up?
I admire Peter Oborne's writing and in a rather futurist article he predicts much. He starts though with:Link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...nths-hold.htmlQuote:
It is a revolution by ordinary British people against a grasping political class which gave us Black Wednesday, the Iraq War and the financial crash of 2008. Essentially, this is a revolt by the provinces against London and the poor against the rich.
A LSE academic has an obituary for David Cameron and what politics could become:http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...tical-chancer/
David.....as someone who has watched the EEC, then the EC and then the EU everyone knew that the easy part is trade and a central currency and how has watched UK vote to join in and now out...there is one underlining point that is well forgotten by all those countries that have joined the original five then six.
It is all about the money....and that I mean is mainly the only reason older many members and the latest new members ever had when joining.
The EU Rural development fund has been basically used by a turnstile revolving credit card to draw in BILLIONs in rural aid funds which have either been wisely or unwisely used by the member states.
BTW UK is no different......look at the total shock about now funding being cut off....the UK was the largest single member drawing massive amounts of EU research/education funding.....that will go away as well now.......and BTW the pay masters always being Germany followed by France and the Dutch.
If one really looks a the collapse and resulting financial problems of Ireland, Spain, Portugal, some degree Italy and especially Greece.....that credit card mentality drove a massive real estate bubble that burst in 2008 leaving billions in bad debts to be paid at some time in the future by the Germans, French and Dutch via the ECB...and notice the real estate bubble was and still is in the UK and it has now burst with a 12% sudden fall in house prices yesterday with the fall of the Pound.
The second reason to join was the sheer volume of internal EU trading that was and has been building over the years.....UK now has to fight to get into that again but this time with tariffs on their products and the standardization of safety and food standards that has benefits all members.
Let's look at the UK argument not to join the Euro...after the massive fall yesterday it take 1.22 UK pounds to purchase a Euro...and with further falling the sovereign credit rating being lowered to negative and S&P dropping the credit rating to AA the Pound will be cheaper than the Euro.
Immigration....was a smokescreen and racist in the end....when I came to work with Cisco in 1995 in the UK I had to wait 3 months and Cisco paid a massive legal fee to get the permit......now if UK needed specialists and experts they flowed across the border from other EU countries and the UK Customs guy would always sheer at me when clearing through Customs and question always about my work and where I was the same when clearing through Calais.
As UK is aging as it Germany is ...you and Germany need immigrants simple as that or did you all think the current "British/German population" was going to reproduce faster than the aging...never happen.
A recent study done here in Berlin indicated that if they are successful in integrating those that came......payments into social security and retire funds will actually increase not decease and in the tax earning over the long run balances out the current initial costs of the 1.2M refugees.
In the US we have seen something similar...all the illegal Mexicans Trump complains about and all those other illegals...well every year the US Social Security gets roughly 12B USD paid into them without questions asked by them since the illegals always used false SSA numbers to get jobs...and in the end they cheat themselves out of small pension for this but it pays US SS pensioners and the US SSA does not complain in the least.
So when the EU steps up and states member states must do this and that they scream and say...but.....we do not want controls from Brussels ALL still holding out their hands for the massive flowing development funds...
Are there problems, yes there are but nothing that a growing multinational nation state has not seen before and they are easy in the end to fix.....but with a growing populist movement that is getting harder since many are in the EU Parliament....and they do not want the problems fixed because then they have nothing to complain about.
But for the UK it is sad because you have robbed an entire young generation ie those from 14-18 who saw the EU as their future--for jobs, travel, education etc.....that disappointment will never be overcome by any future UK government.
And the break up will be hard and the UK will pay for being the first one as the EU founders want to show the others that talk about leaving just how hard it will be on them.
Today here in Germany....the German FM stated "we will not allow anyone".....anyone meaning the UK tak Europe away from us....
So in the end for a coming decade of recession and slow growth if at all....for losing a truly massive amount of "free funding" for the coming decades.....for losing massive amounts of funding for research/education. losing the freedom of movement for both healthcare, jobs and travel......over 40 years of poor UK political central governance.....
Was it in the end really worth it.....sadly not....
Remain voters furious at Brexit-backtrackers who regret EU Leave result
http://huff.to/28S95Z4
What is now interesting is a number of things tied to the concept of outright lying, disinformation by those leading the Leave movement especially UKIP which claimed they would immediately begin spending 350M Pounds a "week" on the NHS and then in interviews after the vote quietly stated yes we lied...
To leave leaders stating the various regions of UK would not be losing the EU funding flows an if they did then the UK government would pick up the slack and the UK government has no money for that......
FOLLOWED by a large number of the UK MSM print media basically lying about the EU, raving untrue stories about immigrants, what goes on in the EU and how bad the EU was beating up on UK......AND the really big story....'we are being ruled in Brussels and we want our own government back" which they always had the last time I checked as the EU did not eliminate nation states and their governments........only to be disproved as basic lying....
Disinformation is just another form of info warfare.....The Sun is telling its readers how badly Brexit affects them, after telling them to vote for it. (Via Alex Merkin)
https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1335...t-your-wallet/ …
Ironic that UK millenmials, stereotyped as lazy, entitled and whiny, are likely to have weathered two major recessions by their 30s.
This deserves to go viral. The point about populism is that it is popular until it gets elected.
https://shar.es/1JLkwD via @digiday
My home town of Newcastle. This afternoon. I feel like I am back in the 1980s.
Some #Brexit trollers appears to believe that vote means EU has to accept their terms for new deal. Don't think so, other peoples in EU too.
Brexit crisis tops off rough stretch in Obama's push for legacy
http://reut.rs/28Y5kBG
Oh my! Looks like Scotland and Northern Ireland may have a veto on #Brexit process - p 19
http://www.publications.parliament.u...om/138/138.pdf …
Not sure why immigration was an issue in the UK vote......
"Mass immigration" ...
The United Kingdom took 5.500 refugees from #Syria.
Germany took 305.000 since 2015.
BREAKING - Germany says six EU founding states want #Brexit to start 'as soon as possible' - @AFP
The way the German MSM Bild's worldview changed since 1996 and the Daily Mail's hasn't says a lot about differences between German and UK political culture
Exclusive: Tata Steel bidders including billionaire tycoon Wilbur Ross get cold feet over UK's decision to leave EU.
http://goo.gl/IwRJww
'Leave' vote in #Brexit referendum was strongest in regions most economically dependent on EU
.@andrewmichta is spot-on that #Brexit will make Europe more inward-looking - unhelpful for US.
http://wp.me/p4ja0Z-Adv
UK already not part of Euro and Schengen and mentally absent for years, don't see much changing with Brexit.
Outlaw09 cited in part:Immigration has long been an issue for the public to mutter about and sometimes has resulted in significant minority votes for extremist / nationalist parties - today UKIP, before them the BNP. The main political parties have simply ignored the discontent, anxiety and hostility.
We now know that Tony Blair's government quietly enabled significant immigration, from outside the EU - I do not have the figures or sources to hand, but a Google search will find them.
Then the initial restrictions on the 'new' EU nations coming to the UK were changed. Originally entry was permitted if employment had been found; the change enabled entry to search for employment.
In the last decade, maybe slightly more two million new jobs were taken by immigrants, out of IIRC three million jobs and whilst official unemployment figures show a reduction there is little sign of that in many places - especially outside London and the South East.
Yes, we have a problem with getting UK nationals to work, especially if the work is dirty, hard, involves long hours and the pay is low (even if the minimum wage has gone up). That is not a unique UK problem.
Resentment over "immigrants taking our jobs" and possibly depressing wages has become more vocal of late - before the EU campaign. As the referendum results suggest Exit support was highest in English areas with extensive new immigration, often where food processing is the biggest employer and those who fear immigrants are coming.
Add in the refugee crisis in the Mediterranean and it is easy to see how some parts of the Exit campaign exploited the fears and realities of immigration. Yes, very few Syrian refugees have made it here, but everyone knows there are thousands of migrants @ Calais mainly trying every day to enter.
Do not think immigration is a whites only issue, it is not and a good number of the "settled" immigrant communities, such as those from South Asia, also have concerns - especially as family reunions are harder to get permission for.
Appears Merkel is willing to have continued economic turmoil until UK leaves..in the end that hurts not helps the Euro.....
Merkel sees no need to rush Britain into quick EU divorce
http://reut.rs/294nZt7
In an interview today in Sky a Brit business lawyer stated even the Brit/EU/US businesses want a date to work against.....not uncertainy....
Try this passage to illustrate why immigration mattered:Link:https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...redum-campaignQuote:
In Barking last week I watched this doughty victor over the BNP confront lifelong Labour voters, who would not listen. They had seen good car industry jobs replaced with warehouse work, zero hours contracts and insecurity. But what they hated most was the sudden cultural change with migrants arriving in large numbers in a short time.
(Ends) Denying those voters a voice helps explain why those anti-EU, anti-foreigner emotions erupted so disastrously on Thursday.
Blair and immigration:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-public.html
David....
BUT this is what is not understood in Europe...UK is not part and parcel of “the Schengen Agreement” zone thus the so called "free movement of EU citizens" does not apply to UK...ALL the while UK citizens take advantage of Schengen to travel, work and reside in 26 different EU countries these days....does not quite sound right does it as it appears UK wants to eat the cake but refuses to provide the flour for the cake? ANd any outside the 26 countries coming in must have a Schengen visa thus would have been stopped in say Dover, Heathrow or Calais...
BUT THEN this
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...refugee-crisis
Sorry but I cannot find any EU decisions that forces UK to take any and all immigrants so is really the so called immigrant problem of the UK actually one that the UK in handling their own immigrant policies have been doing it poorly and then blaming the EU???Quote:
British ministers including Theresa May and Philip Hammond have made hair-raising claims about the dangers of migrants entering the country. But do the facts bear them out?
There are countries with social infrastructure at breaking point because of the refugee crisis – but they aren’t in Europe. The most obvious example is Lebanon, which houses 1.2 million Syrian refugees within a total population of roughly 4.5 million. To put that in context, a country that is more than 100 times smaller than the EU has already taken in more than 50 times as many refugees as the EU will even consider resettling in the future. Lebanon has a refugee crisis. Europe – and, in particular, Britain – does not.
£36.95
Many claim that Britain is a coveted destination for migrants because of its generous benefits system. Aside from the reality that most migrants have little prior knowledge of the exact nature of each European country’s asylum system, it is not true that the UK is particularly beneficent. Each asylum seeker in Britain gets a meagre £36.95 to live on (and they are not usually allowed to work to supplement this sum). In France, whose policies are supposedly driving up the numbers at Calais, migrants actually receive substantially more. According to the Asylum Information Database, asylum seekers in France receive up to £56.62 a week. Germany and Sweden – the two most popular migrant destinations – pay out £35.21 and £36.84 a week respectively, only fractionally less than Britain.
50%
In the dog-whistle rhetoric of Hammond and Theresa May, the archetypal contemporary migrant in Europe is from Africa. But again, that’s not true. This year, according to UN figures, 50% alone are from two non-African countries: Syria (38%) and Afghanistan (12%). When migrants from Pakistan, Iraq and Iran are added into the equation, it becomes clear that the number of African migrants is significantly less than half. Even so, as discussed above, many of them – especially those from Eritrea, Darfur, and Somalia – have legitimate claims to refugee status.
76,439
Despite the hysteria, the number of refugees in the UK has actually fallen by 76,439 since 2011. That’s according to Britain’s Refugee Council, which crunched the numbers gleaned from UN data and found that the number of refugees in the UK fell from 193,600 to 117,161 in the past four years. By comparison, the proportion of refugees housed by developing countries in the past 10 years has risen, according to the UN, from 70% to 86%. Britain could be doing far more
Maybe it is not known inside the UK by many but even the EU put restrictions on the newer members on their Schengen concept and limited "freedom of movement" for countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria for up to four or five years...so to argue UK was going to be overrun is again simply a smokescreen.
BTW...had then the receiving UK communities applied for the EU Rural or Low Income Development Funds...they could have funded additional schools, hospitals and other local community improvements.....without ....having to burden the UK taxpayer as the rest of EU is currently doing.
Sounds like to me the UK does after 40 odd years...not know how to play the EU funding games...but that is not a problem of the EU......
IF we go back before the EU...the UK has always had a problem with immigration starting with passing out UK passports to those residing in the British colonies/British Commonwealth and THEN restricting them to come to the UK even with valid UK Passports so this so called immigrant problem has been there for literally years before the EU.
So to now argue it is the "fault" of the EU is a tad disingenuous.......
Another argument by Leave was that by not having to pay into EU will mean more money back to UK residents...BUT Moodys has been saying whatever the savings will be that will be eaten up by a far weaker public finances and less money due to the drop in the Pound.
The other argument of Leave was EU red tape is killing investment and new businesses.....BUT UK is second in OCED countries on investment and new businesses and trade...the top position is the Dutch...so evidently the so called red tape of the EU did not seem to hinder neither the UK and the Netherlands ......in the top OCED ten positions EU countries made up five......
Citing Outlaw09 in part:The Schengen Zone enables cross-border travel without producing a passport (or other accepted ID). The UK opted out of the Schengen Agreement (along with Ireland IRRC) and requires EU nationals produce a passport upon arrival - I'd call that free movement with a condition.Quote:
BUT this is what is not understood in Europe...UK is not part and parcel of “the Schengen Agreement” zone thus the so called "free movement of EU citizens" does not apply to UK...ALL the while UK citizens take advantage of Schengen to travel, work and reside in 26 different EU countries these days....does not quite sound right does it as it appears UK wants to eat the cake but refuses to provide the flour for the cake??.
The UK in theory can refuse entry, but I understand that is rarely exercised. It can also deport EU nationals on limited grounds.
I would argue that immigration was a seriously used smokescreen BUT that this was a vote for and against globalization...ie the 18000 pound a year salary voted against and those of 30K voted for remaining in.....
The highest leave came from the low income areas vs areas with more income ....
Amazingly those that had a passport voted to remain and those that did not have one voted to leave...........
And naturally the youth vote went for and the over 65 went to leave....so there was a generational split as well...problematic was getting that youth vote out which failed badly and now they are complaining but have no one than themselves to blame.....
What broke the model was Scotland and N.Ireland which are basically low income but had a high view of the EU because I think they have played well the EU Rural and Low Income Development Fund and have well established and strong EU company employers in their regions..it is almost like they developed a European mindset say vs. Cornwall that gets a ton of EU funding but voted to get out.....which lacked an EU identify......
Outlaw09 in part:It helps to quantify the youth vote and from Twitter:Quote:
And naturally the youth vote went for and the over 65 went to leave....so there was a generational split as well...problematic was getting that youth vote out which failed badly and now they are complaining but have no one than themselves to blame.....
How traditional Labour seats voted:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzdAR2WIAEJYOY.jpgQuote:
Those who say the elderly have "robbed" young people of their future might instead rebuke the 64% of 18-24yr-olds who didn't bother voting.
Brexit & role disinformation by the British media (curved bananas etc), an analysis.
https://twitter.com/SpecGhost/status/746553046386229248 …
Shocking if true: Jeremy Corbyn Allies ‘Sabotaged’ Labour’s In EU ref Campaign, Critics Claim
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0d2571149bb1f …
1st time in UK history: PM won't be chosen by gen'l election or MPs but by party activists
http://www.businessinsider.com/david...16-6?r=UK&IR=T …
So UK leaves and kneecapped themselves now a internal party coup.....a new PM with new election.
1st time in UK history: PM won't be chosen by gen'l election or MPs but by party activists
http://www.businessinsider.com/david...16-6?r=UK&IR=T …
Well this is pretty huge. Kezia Dugdale says Scottish Labour "will consider all options" going forward ie support for independence.
Brexit: a surge in inquiries about Irish passports from people in London who want to remain citizens of EU country.
This UK MSM pushed the Leave hard and then this.......
Cards reading 'go home scum' are 'posted through Polish doors'
http://dailym.ai/28TWvsk via @MailOnline
BUT WAIT...I thought Polish pilots flew with the Brits over England in WW2......
Welsh Muslim told 'pack bags, go home' after campaigning for Remain #Brexit Via @astroehlein
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7101491.html …
Just seen a van full of blokes drive past young Muslim girls shouting from the window "Out Out Out!" Horrible. #Brockley #London
“Boris Johnson didn’t think that they’d win” @Anna_Soubry tells @krishgm what she thinks was behind Boris's campaign
https://youtu.be/ERHfuzyic8M
Scathing critique of the gap between what Vote Leave promised and what they will actually do. #EUref
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...P=share_btn_tw …
Saturday 25 June 2016 18.05 BST Last modified on Saturday 25 June 2016 18.27 BST
Wes Streeting MPQuote:
Where was the champagne at the Vote Leave headquarters? The happy tears and whoops of joy? If you believed Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, the Brexit vote was a moment of national liberation, a day that Nigel Farage said our grateful children would celebrate with an annual bank holiday.
Johnson and Gove had every reason to celebrate. The referendum campaign showed the only arguments that matter now in England are on the right. With the Labour leadership absent without leave and the Liberal Democrats and Greens struggling to be heard, the debate was between David Cameron and George Osborne, defending the status quo, and the radical right, demanding its destruction. Johnson and Gove won a dizzying victory with the potential to change every aspect of national life, from workers’ rights to environmental protection.
Yet they gazed at the press with coffin-lid faces and wept over the prime minister they had destroyed. David Cameron was “brave and principled”, intoned Johnson. “A great prime minister”, muttered Gove. Like Goneril and Regan competing to offer false compliments to Lear, they covered the leader they had doomed with hypocritical praise. No one whoops at a funeral, especially not mourners who are glad to see the back of the deceased. But I saw something beyond hypocrisy in those frozen faces: the fear of journalists who have been found out.
The media do not damn themselves, so I am speaking out of turn when I say that if you think rule by professional politicians is bad wait until journalist politicians take over. Johnson and Gove are the worst journalist politicians you can imagine: pundits who have prospered by treating public life as a game. Here is how they play it. They grab media attention by blaring out a big, dramatic thought. An institution is failing? Close it. A public figure blunders? Sack him. They move from journalism to politics, but carry on as before. When presented with a bureaucratic EU that sends us too many immigrants, they say the answer is simple, as media answers must be. Leave. Now. Then all will be well.
Boris Johnson. Liar, conman – and prime minister?
Johnson and Gove carried with them a second feature of unscrupulous journalism: the contempt for practical questions. Never has a revolution in Britain’s position in the world been advocated with such carelessness. The Leave campaign has no plan. And that is not just because there was a shamefully under-explored division between the bulk of Brexit voters who wanted the strong welfare state and solid communities of their youth and the leaders of the campaign who wanted Britain to become an offshore tax haven. Vote Leave did not know how to resolve difficulties with Scotland, Ireland, the refugee camp at Calais, and a thousand other problems, and did not want to know either.
It responded to all who predicted the chaos now engulfing us like an unscrupulous pundit who knows that his living depends on shutting up the experts who gainsay him. For why put the pundit on air, why pay him a penny, if experts can show that everything he says is windy nonsense? The worst journalists, editors and broadcasters know their audiences want entertainment, not expertise. If you doubt me, ask when you last saw panellists on Question Time who knew what they were talking about.
Naturally, Michael Gove, former Times columnist, responded to the thousands of economists who warned he was taking an extraordinary risk with the sneer that will follow him to his grave: “People in this country have had enough of experts.” He’s being saying the same for years.
If sneers won’t work, the worst journalists lie. The Times fired Johnson for lying to its readers. Michael Howard fired Johnson for lying to him. When he’s cornered, Johnson accuses others of his own vices, as unscrupulous journalists always do. Those who question him are the true liars, he blusters, whose testimony cannot be trusted because, as he falsely said of the impeccably honest chairman of the UK Statistics Authority, they are “stooges”.
The Vote Leave campaign followed the tactics of the sleazy columnist to the letter. First, it came out with the big, bold solution: leave. Then it dismissed all who raised well-founded worries with “the country is sick of experts”. Then, like Johnson the journalist, it lied.
On Friday, Johnson and Dan Hannan said that in all probability the number of foreigners coming here won’t fall
I am not going to be over-dainty about mendacity. Politicians, including Remain politicians lie, as do the rest of us. But not since Suez has the nation’s fate been decided by politicians who knowingly made a straight, shameless, incontrovertible lie the first plank of their campaign. Vote Leave assured the electorate it would reclaim a supposed £350m Brussels takes from us each week. They knew it was a lie. Between them, they promised to spend £111bn on the NHS, cuts to VAT and council tax, higher pensions, a better transport system and replacements for the EU subsidies to the arts, science, farmers and deprived regions. When boring experts said that, far from being rich, we would face a £40bn hole in our public finances, Vote Leave knew how to fight back. In Johnsonian fashion, it said that the truth tellers were corrupt liars in Brussels’ pocket.
Now they have won and what Kipling said of the demagogues of his age applies to Michael Gove, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage.
I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
The real division in Britain is not between London and the north, Scotland and Wales or the old and young, but between Johnson, Gove and Farage and the voters they defrauded. What tale will serve them now? On Thursday, they won by promising cuts in immigration. On Friday, Johnson and the Eurosceptic ideologue Dan Hannan said that in all probability the number of foreigners coming here won’t fall. On Thursday, they promised the economy would boom. By Friday, the pound was at a 30-year low and Daily Mail readers holidaying abroad were learning not to believe what they read in the papers. On Thursday, they promised £350m extra a week for the NHS. On Friday, it turns out there are “no guarantees”.
If we could only find a halfway competent opposition, the very populist forces they have exploited and misled so grievously would turn on them. The fear in their eyes shows that they know it.
✔ @wesstreeting I asked the Government what preparations were being made for Brexit. Was told: none. I am shocked that this now appears to be true
"The Times fired Johnson for lying to its readers. Michael Howard fired Johnson for lying to him."
I would agree with David's rationale for leaving but also agree with Outlaw's view on the immigration file. Here is what I wrote elsewhere:
"The United Kingdom's immigration troubles are primarily the result of its post-war intake of Commonwealth citizens, its welcoming approach to migrants and refugees and its lack of immigration enforcement. Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech happened when Poland and Romania were still members of the CMEA and Warsaw Pact...
2001 to 2011 is a key period in UK immigration history. During that time, the number of Polish residents surged by some 10 times. However, in 2010, Eurostat observed that of the UK's 11.30% foreign-born residents, 68% were non-EU. In 2014, the UK's ONS observed that some 1.1 million UK foreign-born residents were from the "new" EU countries of Poland, Romania and Lithuania, compared to more than 2.1 million from the Commonwealth in South Asia and Africa, even decades after de-colonization. Yet the number of "new" EU residents is actually down 1/3 from its peak around 2004-2007. Moreover, between 2001 and 2011, the White population of the UK grew by 1.81%, compared to 75% for the non-White population (ONS). Lastly, the focus on the Poles is curious given that the UK actively recruited Polish laborers after both world wars.
This data tells us a few things:
1. There is emigration by White Britons from the UK (typically to Canada, Australia or New Zealand)
2. EU citizens from East-Central Europe are barely keeping up with the pace of emigration from the UK and have a tendency to return home or leave the UK based upon economic conditions
3. If non-British EU citizens were all expelled from the UK, the British population would actually have a much higher percentage of visible minorities
4. Not only are Asian and African Commonwealth citizens still arriving in the UK in large numbers, but they are more likely to stay than EU citizens, and continue to outnumber EU residents by 2:1
5. Brexit will not necessarily impact Commonwealth immigration or refugee policy
6. The EU has poorly handled the flow of non-EU migrants and refugees, but then again, the UK has accepted them in the past and continues to do so
7. As with Sweden and Germany, migrants are drawn to the UK not because of its EU membership but because of its lax policies and generous benefits which are national and not supranational in nature
8. Poland's economy is doing relatively well, yet Poland is refusing to settle more than a token number of refugees and is not attractive to the denizens of Calais' "jungle".."
The mayor of Calais already demanding the scrapping of the agreement that keeps migrants in Calais rather than Dover. Well, we were warned.
Really really really worth reading.......
Important by @CER_Grant on how unscrupulous Leave outmanoeuvred somewhat confused Leave. He said it before the vote. https://www.cer.org.uk/insights/how-...battle-five-ms
Explains a lot of what I have been posting here.......
Citing Azor in one tiny part:There has been a steady exit for many years now of white Britons, usually those with a ready skill needed abroad. A smaller number of ethnic minority Britons have gone too. Most simply see elsewhere as offering better life chances.Quote:
There is emigration by White Britons from the UK (typically to Canada, Australia or New Zealand)
Their destinations are far wider than the 'old' Commonwealth, although some pass the entry procedures. For example 200-250k Brits reside in the Gulf states. Considerable number of English teachers are scattered across the world. Of the two million UK citizens living in the EU (cited this week), one million are working.
Many of the recent press reporting is based on Lord Ashcroft's polling, which starts with IMHO a very small sample size:Link with far more:http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06...voted-and-why/Quote:
The UK has voted to leave the European Union. On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted to help explain the result – who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision.
A cri de coeur from one of those young, highly educated voters who represent Progress and so deserved to win:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/op...tons.html?_r=0
Everybody has obviously his opinion and his vote and who I am to not respect the specific decision. What bothers me greatly is:
1. Lies, yes lies, played such an important part for the Leave campaigns concerning the economic consequences.
As an Italian I'm used to that, we elected Mr. Lie four times, but it is always tough to stomach them.
2. The Irish questions was hardly if at all mentioned or debated
It's great that peace made the latter less urgent but to me that is rather telling that as in many other cases the good of the EU membership was just mentally skipped. The Irish Times article aptly describes part of the problem, while in the podcast some of importance of the EU in the peace process was underlined.
3. The risk of Scotland leaving the UK was rarely discussed by the Leave campaign, which is in itself quite ironic.
There is no doubt that this decision does increase it's probability. As we speak the SNP prepares for a second referendum and wants talks with the EU. Why was this effect hardly discussed in the media?
P.S: The last graph with 'Leave' 7 out of 10 on the side of 'don't think the vote mattered much' is deeply disturbing, especially when compared to 1 in 4 of 'Remain'. Of course the expectations impacts that a lot but it meshes to some degree with a good amount of people deciding to give the gov a kick.
P.P.S: VOXEU has lots of good takes on the economic effects and UK economic history. Keep in mind that Britain entered the European comunity after slipping from the richest economy to under-average performer. Within it the UK recovered and reversed economic course.
David....I keep going back to the simple fact immigration is the smokescreen used by UKIP, the BNP and yes even the Conservatives in the form of Boris the "terrible"....
BUT in the end it is all about globalization......there was a comment recently that stated "markets do not know what a nation state is"...and if one thinks really long and hard..it is all about globalization.....
You comments on the auto factory workers is exactly that is being seen by the US autoworkers and yes I hate to say this but also seen in the GDR as early as 1989/1990---in my eyes "globalization" has been on a subtle move for a lot longer than we give it credit....
Reference Schengen.....the 300K or so Polish people residing in UK is balanced by how many Brits working, studying, touring, living on pensions in the rest of the EU.....more than outweighs the estimated 3M EU workers currently inside UK.
Just look at the sheer numbers of Brits currently living and working for the EU and Brit companies in say Brussels..just check hoe many evening flights there are between Brussels and London for the Brit commuter.
An interesting point was made last night that the majority voters for Leave when looking at education had little to no education levels and those that had a higher education level voted for Remain.
Education of the working class and or the non education of the working class goes to the heart of globalization if one is serious about a discussion on it.
Take as the example your auto workers now working in a warehouse...had they been trained in a specialized field say computer driven milling and lathing they could be now in Berlin where there is over 400 open positions for that skill set with English as a core requirement...why for export. English is de facto a needed skill set.
There is on the German job search sites in over 100 employment fields over 2000 plus open jobs where English is the primary skill being demanded on any given day.
Work is out there but one must be willing to move and adapt...that was the concept behind Schengen....and amazingly English is the common determinant.
Question is though is the older generation ready to pack up and move vs say the younger generation that sees no problem with doing that if necessary.
That was clearly seen in how the two generations voted...
Firn...the use of disinformation in this vote was amazingly similar to that currently used by Russia and Putin....and that was and still is even in this morning in the UK somehow not being discussed.
Social media open source analysis caught the similarity literally months ago but somehow they were not even looked at by UK MSM....even down to pointing who was driving it and their messaging/narratives....
Why was it being ignored....it was coming from major UK MSM itself....the question is why and how was it paid for it and where did the money come from ie from which writers and their ties to whom????
Disinformation is a powerful voice inside a "populist movement"....just look at Trump....
Tory Party heading for irrevocable split. Labour Party in meltdown. Scotland sprinting for the exit. N.Ireland is a question.
And the Pound and FTSE again tomorrow.....??
This is all going very well so far.
But hey at least we voted for democratic chaos....
Russian non linear warfare is now hard at work......
Russian TV propaganda spreads lies: "Finland thinks to exit from EU"
https://twitter.com/rentvchannel/sta...85835471745028 …
The latent racism unleashed in this vote can in fact be directly connected to UKIP, BNP, Labour and the Conservatives AND a wide spectrum of the UK press.....
Am hearing that the Polish Centre in Hammersmith has been smeared with "Go Home". This is an unspeakable crime and is indescribably awful.
On Friday my niece was on a field trip. A man shouted at school girls: "So is this a **** Islam fishing group?! Where's the white people?"
One photo the UK citizens really need to revisit......
Polish immigrants in Britain... H/t @ingeniarius08
UKIP leader is now seriously running from his own statements and their very own PR buses that had this splashed all over them...and what he stated in hsi speeches....
Nigel Farage: "Nobody said that we'd spend the £350million a week on the NHS"
One of those plastered campaign posters from UKIP.......
"Let's give our NHS 350M Pounds that we give EU weekly"
Sounds like a commitment to me.......
So was he lying or telling the truth and yet he claims to speak for UK....
Posted this yesterday and it is firming up as a valid Scottish political move as the EU was buried in the Good Friday agreements as it was buried inside the Scottish and Walsh devolution agreements....appears that all three have actually a veto voice in Parliament as the EU membership was the assumed basis for all their agreements.......
Appears Boris the "terrible", UKIP, BNP. Labour and especially Cameron simply forgot to check their own agreements.....
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says Holyrood could effectively block UK's exit from the EU by vetoing it
http://bbc.in/29bGdrJ
Tend to believe the Scots definitely got UK constitutional advice before they went public with this.....
The #EU will treat Britain like Greece. A superb post mortem by @mattholehouse in @Telegraph #Brexit http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-like-greece/ …
PROBABLY one of the best takes on the EU views towards UK and the EU comin actions which will be brutal for UK that I have seen written in the last few days AND it does not bode well for UK citizens nor their economy nor they standing in the world of global politics of which they have actually thrown themselves out of....
BBC News - Corbyn office 'sabotaged' EU Remain campaign - sources
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36633238 …
This does not surprise me in the least as he was first against the EU and then lukewarm for the EU BUT foremost he is a old line UK leftist who basically out of ideological reasons has always been against the EU....
Many openly questioned his actions during the campaign but no one wanted to actually say then that he in fact was sabotaging his own words and actions....
If one looks at the way Putin has been playing the right and left segments of the EU ever since 2006 with money and info warfare help...Putin has been driving Eurospectic groups from both political spectrums to achieve exactly what this vote achieved and it did not cost him a war and or a single bullet.....it was done legally and democratically.....the destruction of the EU as a viable economic and political entity
Allowing Russia to fulfill it's dream of an free trade economic zone from Portugal to Russian Far East....under Russian influence.....openly stated also since 2006...only the EU stood in the way backed by the US.....
.....
Immigration of the London City now starting to go in the other direction..was predicted to happen before the vote but "declared rubbish" by Boris "the terrible"....and UKIP.......as were all other expert statements called "rubbish"....by both.
HSBC to move 1000 jobs to Paris when #UK will leave #EU #Brexit
http://economie.hotnews.ro/stiri-fin...-europeana.htm
…
The City is expected to lose over 100,000 banking and investment jobs over the next two years as will the City lose the right to buy and sell EU bonds and other EU financial products since they will not be in the EU......Frankfurt, Paris and NYC are rejoicing today.......
Boris "the terrible"...also stated that this was "rubbish" and would never happen.....well it has started.....
.@NicolaSturgeon (Scotland) describes events in Westminster as "utter chaos, shambolic and frankly disgraceful"
The petition for a second referendum on the EU, which now has 3m+ supporters, was set up by a Leave campaigner. http://news.sky.com/story/1717815/se...up-by-brexiter …
Britain's elites have been governing a country they wished they had rather than one they have.
http://bit.ly/28SvAwQ
I don't recall this theme being strongly mentioned in the campaign, although other words may have been used.
So this commentary in The Guardian is noteworthy:https://www.theguardian.com/business...-globalisation
A key passage:It is ironic that many of those who have campaigned against TTIP for example and globalisation are generally found on the Left, who mainly voted to Remain.Quote:
This was more than a protest against the career opportunities that never knock and the affordable homes that never get built. It was a protest against the economic model that has been in place for the past three decades.
But interestingly enough HSBC has not denied it which they would have if not true.....there have been other banking groups quietly stating before the vote that they would leave as the City will lose the right or "passport" as they call it to trade in EU funds, EU bonds and other EU issued financial products.
That includes the City being the current center of Euro currency trades....that is the reason that Paris and Frankfurt has been wooing those banks....to move.
This article goes to the heart of the coming loss of City finance jobs to either Paris and or Frankfurt....
Comments from French & Dutch Officials suggest loss of passporting: IF true, very damaging for UK economy
http://ner.sagepub.com/content/236/1/31.full.pdf …
UK losses that passporting right when they leave the EU.....Quote:
Having ‘passporting’ rights to the Single Market and access to the financial infrastructure of the Eurozone is vital to hosting Euro financial markets.
Populist parties are popular until they are elected......then....the sky falls....
Germany's No 2 effectively quashing rumours of possibly negotiating "Brexit-lite": single market + some FOM control https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/...75243697668096 …
German views both private and publicly among the local citizens and the German parties pay close attention.....
"If you want the benefits then you must play the game"...meaning if you want schools fund them, if you want jobs then push you government for jobs, if you want job training push your government and presto they find the EU will find the funds.
Example.....where I live which is in the rural edge of Berlin there is a main German Weather Service center (DWD) which has been here since the late 1880s and there is the old center with a lot of historical weather related pieces of equipment and historical documents .....the local community formed a committee approached the EU Rural Fund laid their plans out and got 75% of the estimated construction costs and first three years of operation in order for them to get going as a major weather museum.
Presto....after the initial slow start....it has gained in popularity and is drawing visitors from all over including tourists outside Germany who are interested in weather and climate change and they are carrying themselves financially.
Second example....a small specialized company dealing in the stripping of metal construction products prior to a specialized coating being applied.....which employs 25 locals and pushes a good deal of their products into exports... applied for and got 100% funding for the construction of the actual plant and 70% operational funding to carry them for three years until they got their feet on solid good. Now they are at 40 employees and are carrying themselves very well.
The EU has been good at pushing investment and employment measures for rural development.
So to hear from Leave types that it was about schools, hospitals and other local needed services WHY did not the government push the Eu for more aid in supporting the increasing immigrant stream??
Jeremy Corbyn , the Labour leader, has said that areas that voted most strongly to leave in the EU referendum are “communities that have effectively been abandoned” by economic change and the austerity policies of Britain’s Conservative government.
So why did the Leavers kill the golden goose instead of beating up their own government and why did they "blame" Brussels instead of Whitehall???
"Game over" for Boris "the terrible" and those on the Leave side that felt with this mandate they could go back to the EU and renegotiate what they felt Cameron had failed to achieve and then they could have come back and back off of Article 50....
European Union will not make Britain any fresh offers to keep it in the bloc, German Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel says - Reuters
S&P confirms to the FT that UK will lose its final AAA credit rating.
We calculated this would cost the country about £4bn, (before #BlackFriday), in extra interest payments on our debt.
EU Mythbusters
✔ @EUvsDisinfo Disinformation is when a poll can only lead to one outcome. Read more in the DisinfoDigest:
http://eepurl.com/b6YYmf