Something just whizzed past my head...
Why would I shake my head and laugh? In my Capstone course on War and Conflict from ancient times... this week the class discusses Sun Tzu. I would certainly suggest that in his free time Jamey read the old Chinese dude. I agree with you about Giap.
cheers
JohnT
Could I ask for a clarification?
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Originally Posted by
j earl
Petraeus inherited a lost cause in what has to be one of the most complex civil wars in history...
Huh? Basis for that statement?
I thought it was extraordinarily simple compared to half dozen others, not least ours -- or Viet Nam's (45 years worth...). Much less the British; Taiping; Russian...
And speaking of Veet Nam, Don't believe the myth that Giap never won any battles. He may not have been in direct command but his forces won a slew of battles with US forces and even more against the ARVN -- the ones they lost were the larger efforts where the US was able to out number the opposition temporarily. When the bad guy initiates over 75% of your force on force contacts, he is emphatically not a loser. Viet Nam was a failure of foreign policy, no question -- but the US Armed Forces did NOT do it at all well. While some US units did very well, the one year tour (Personnel Policy). our training (Training Policy) and equipment all were problematic (R&D, Procurement and sustainment policies) all meant there was no consistency in US unit performance whreas Clyde and the PAVN / NVA were remarkably consistent. Giap did a better job IMO than any US General from WW II through today.
Oh young grasshopper...again
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j earl
Giap seems to have a pretty big following here, so I will cede this one. We will just have to agree to disagree. No worries, the great thing about a free country is we can believe what we want :) .
You need to read Mao. He speaks to the People Revolution. The same thing that Dave Matthews Band, Rage against the Machine, and Johnny Cash sing about. Before you take a stand, I'd suggest that you read my article, "The Break Point." It'll introduce you to Mao and an SF guy in Vietnam.
Mike
Well, there are a lot of myths about Viet Nam
but don't let that bother you, seriously, you've got tons of company. There's a tremendous amount of misinformation out there about it and it was a confusing war in a confusing time. You might want to read this (LINK), it's more accurate than many of the oft touted books by Academics.
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Originally Posted by
j earl
Admittedly, other than Vietnam, I do not know details of the other civil wars...
and if that quote is true, was it not a bit sweeping to say that Iraq was "one of the most complex civil wars in history..." Just asking...
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How do the others compare? When I say complex, I speak mainly of the social divides in play amongst belligerents.
You're the student so you can study those differences. I'd suggest that social divides are only rarely the most important aspect in the definition of 'complex' with respect to wars... :eek:
Quote:
Giap seems to have a pretty big following here, so I will cede this one. We will just have to agree to disagree. No worries, the great thing about a free country is we can believe what we want.
His following here or elsewhere is not the issue -- what he accomplished should be.
Yes, we can believe what we want -- credibility is gained when one reacts to facts, not beliefs.
You've confused me -- that's easy to do, I'm old -- are you ceding on Giap or are you agreeing to disagree? I'm uneducated but I don't think one can occupy both those positions at once... :confused: ;)