Kids learn in spite of poor teachers; good units can transcend poor support...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JMA
The problem of the US was that the initial (production line) training was very basic and that of replacements was even less. This was a significant problem it itself.
Was and is -- we have gotten no smarter... :mad:
Quote:
Big difference in approach to that of the US.
Sadly, our approach is driven by a personnel system that is designed and operated to serve itself and its operators. It does a very poor job of supporting the Army. :rolleyes:
It simply wants to produce Round Pegs, small Round Pegs, that will fit in any hole regardless of the size or shape that is an optimum fit for the hole in question. It is not solely the fault of the Personnel folks; the Army leadership and, more importantly, the Congress support, even demand, that approach. Sad...:mad:
It is noteworthy that two of the most successful Divisions in the US Army in World War II, the 3d Infantry and the 82d Airborne both ordinarily refused to accept any replacements other than Privates and Second Lieutenants, both ran excellent training programs all through the war and both were great at promoting from within -- the 82d often declined even 2LTs. There were other good Divisions -- the 88th comes to mind, pure wartime raise and fill with a large number of draftees but they generally excelled because they had exceptionally talented Commanders, not because the 'system' was designed to properly support them.
True on the 82d having more 'down' time.
Hoiwever, training during combat is important and several Divisions other than the 3d were good at it. Most of the Armored Divisions did it. The 1st Mar Div in Korea had an excellent combat training, and NCO training program once the line stabilized and they were rigorous in sending people to those programs.
As you note, in Viet Nam it was far more discretionary at unit level. The 1st Bde of the 101st as a Separate Brigade in 1965-67 had in-country training and an NCO course also. It can be done -- should be done -- and good units will do it in spite of the impediments or lack of an overarching system plan.
Wars fought fairly nearly right -- and others...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JMA
How long were these formations in theatre in which war?
Both were in North Africa, Sicily / Italy and then northwest Europe in WW II. The 3d Infantry Division was there from Nov 42 until Feb 46, the 82d from May 43 until Jan 46.Thanks for the link. Interesting article, I had not seen it before. It is IMO quite accurate, if anything it understates the damage done by that policy though it does seem to have caught all of them. It was indeed the most flawed personnel policy ever -- and note, we're now rotating units instead of people, so we did learn a little in Viet Nam. Very little. Steve is essentially correct in that the 6 month Officer rotations were for ticket punching purposes though it was as the article saed justified by saying it gave more 'combat experience.' I could never figure how bei8ng the Exchange Officer in Da Nang was combat experience...