The evidence that backs up WW2 stereotypes

A short BBC report on a new book:

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We all know the cliches of World War II - that the German military was ruthless and brutal, for example, and Italian soldiers gave up without a fight.

But sometimes cliches are true. New evidence published this month in Germany indicates that the stereotypes were not mere propaganda but accurate pictures of reality.

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Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13141495

The COIN aspect:

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German society had a special attitude to military behaviour which was, 'Never be weak'. You have to obey orders, so German counter- insurgency depended on extreme violence at the beginning in the belief that this would save German blood in the long term. Only winning matters.

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A matter upon which SWC have debated before, IIRC after Edward Luttwak wrote something about German COIN in Russia.

Professor Neitzel, the co-author, has written before on German POWs (pub.2007):http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/b...top-Nazis.html

According to Amazon.com the book is only in German to date.

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Originally Posted by davidbfpo

IIRC after Edward Luttwak wrote something about German COIN in Russia.

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Sounds interesting. Do you happen to remember the title of what Luttwak wrote? Or a link?

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Originally Posted by davidbfpo

The COIN aspect:

A matter upon which SWC have debated before, IIRC after Edward Luttwak wrote something about German COIN in Russia.

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David, The Germans called it anti-partisan warfare and I still have the book:

Communist Guerilla Warfare by Brigadier C. Aubrey Dixon, Otto Heilbrunn

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Originally Posted by Tukhachevskii

Sounds interesting. Do you happen to remember the title of what Luttwak wrote? Or a link?

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There are numerous hits on Luttwak, but on a quick search this appears to be one article:http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/02/0081384

The Luttwak article in question is discussed on the below SWC thread:

http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ak+malpractice

The U-Boat Archive is a very interesting site that has some of the actual transcripts of the conversations between prisoners that were recorded without their knowledge, amongst many other things.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/

This site was also mentioned in a short SWC thread a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by davidbfpo

There are numerous hits on Luttwak, but on a quick search this appears to be one article:http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/02/0081384

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Originally Posted by tequila

The Luttwak article in question is discussed on the below SWC thread:

http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ak+malpractice

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Ta very much guvnors

As a historical aside, about 25 years ago I read an article in an obscure catalog/newsletter that touched on the problem of deserters in France (as the front line moved north and west), circa 1944.

Working from memory, Allied military police/JAG types estimated that @10,000 US, UK and German deserters* were loose and working the black market - up to and including hijacking Red Ball Express shipments.

By extrapolation, this makes you wonder if the script to KELLY'S HEROES wasn't born from a stereotypical bar-room tale.

I'd be interested to see if anyone came across primary source documents on the deserter/black market issue.

nb: * Would think this figure includes both temporary and permanent deserters. My High School French (language) teacher (rifleman in an Infantry BN, son of an expatriated Hungarian household cavalry officer, spoke French to native fluency and was overused as a translator) confessed to going AWOL 13 times between Normandy and Berlin.

Also makes you wonder how many MIAs were actually guys who decided to 'disappear' for whatever reason.