Armies decline after winning a war?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William F. Owen
I concur. I am even moved to say that the best modern Army that ever existed, was the British Army of 1918-28. It could war fight and do pretty good COIN as well.
Wilf makes a good point and made into new thread? So I have moved it from the thread Rifle Squad Composition.
I have read about The Hundred Days campaign in 1918, by the Allied armies on the Western Front (including Australia, British, Canadian, French, Belgian and American). Plus a few wars afterwards, not always succesful e.g. Russain Civil War intervention and not to overlook a war with Afghanistan (The Third Afghan War).
What is interesting is why this prowess disappears. Personnel changes I'd expect to be the key and declining political understanding of waging war second. Logistically, war stocks will have run down and new supplies are required.
I also recall a few comments on how the USMC went to war in Korea, the Pusan landing in particular and OIF.
davidbfpo
Full spectrum response...
Gian said:
Quote:
"Agree with Wilf's and Davidbpfo's point about the British Army. I would add that an inter-war focus on constabulary missions (partly due to the trauma of the country from World War I and not wanting to even think of having to do that one over again) hurt the British Army on the eve of its involvement in World War II; Dunkirk immediately comes to mind."
Given the fact that the German Army contributed to the 'Phoney War' every bit as much as did the British and French and that Dunkirk was a practical British success that the Germans could and should have prevented, it seems to me that Germans -- who emphatically did not do any between the wars constabulary missions -- don't have that excuse for their shortcomings...
I'd also suggest that a counterpoint to your contention is that the US Army's foolishness in deliberately avoiding anything to do with 'constabulary missions' or COIN for almost 30 years lead directly to the ongoing problems in Iraq -- events more harmful that Dunkirk even approached.
MarcT said:
Quote:
"So what is a High School diploma a proxy for? Well, I suppose that you could argue, with some validity, that it is a good proxy for being able to put up with a psychotic organization for four years - and that may well be viewed as a useful skill for someone in the military to have ( ;) )."
Heh, I think you've got that one nailed...
Wilf said:
Quote:
"The inter war focus on COIN/Constabulary was not a choice. It was something the UK was forced to do because Johnny Native fancied at having a go. The Irish got it right, and almost everyone else (including the Afghans and Iraqis) got it wrong!
The intellectual and equipment focus of the British Army was still very focussed on "Big Wars."'
True and we, the US Army, are in the same shape; we're doing what we have to do -- yet the intellectual and equipment focus of most, not all, of the US Army is still too much focused on the "Big War."
Steve Blair said:
Quote:
"To tag back into the "moral waiver" thing for a moment...has anyone considered that the need for these might be higher due to things like mandatory sentencing and the general press to "get tough on crime"? Personally I've seen offenses (MIP being the biggest one) that would have earned a caution (translation...."kid, don't be an ass") fifteen years ago change to a ticket and court appearance. That's gonna boost the need for waivers."
True -- and the rest of your comment is totally accurate. The 1970-75 time frame saw far more trauma than we're likely to see even as the troops realize they're going to do year on - year off rotations for a while.
As to the question posed by Davidbfpo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William F. Owen
...I don't think it does disappear. I think it mutates into the something less useful for reasons few are prepared to admit.
The great question of military thought is:"why do we not do, what we know works?"
True on both counts, I think.
Among the reasons for the first count in most Armies are sloth (particularly intellectual laziness), dislike of change, dreams of past glories and domestic politics. There are many other factors but I believe those are the biggest impactors.
On the second issue, too true -- and other than the contributors I cited above (which I do not think adequately explain that second phenomenon) plus massive egos ("I can solve any problem, no help required...") I have been at a loss to fully understand that failure for many years. I do know it is an extremely dangerous effect that causes unnecessary deaths in every new war...