Holographic Weapon Sight

Our teams employed the L3 511 for the POTUS visit nearly two years ago and have had nothing but problems with this sight on their 7.62 HKs.

Mounted and zerod and after a few rounds, seemed as if the original zerod sight was outta whack by a degree or so. Additionally, the two AA batteries would die in spite of the auto off feature when stored with the sight mounted and batteries installed.

The sights were shipped back under warranty and the QC department could not replicate the problems other than issues with illumination.

Any hints, war stories, etc most welcome as our sights come back shortly.

Thanks in advance, Stan

How were they mounted?

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Originally Posted by Schmedlap

How were they mounted?

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Directly onto the factory installed top rail, which is an integral part of the frame.

Oddly enough, the German security forces also employ the HWS 511s on their G-36KVs. Would have thought they had some superior optics already available !

The weapon pictured is set for longer distances with the sight far forward. The HWS normally sits further back on the rail.

Are you sure your photo shows the correct sight?
Because it is actually a Zeiss which fixes in place with a spring-clamp. Just wonder if maybe the spring clamp is not up to the recoil of a 7.62.

Just found this picture forum on the Estonian defence force. Is that the version of the AK4 you are talking about? That scope rail looks pretty solid.

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Originally Posted by Kiwigrunt

Just found this picture forum on the Estonian defence force. Is that the version of the AK4 you are talking about? That scope rail looks pretty solid.

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Hey Kiwi (boy, that will take some getting used to :D ) !

The pictured G-36 from our arms room is without the HWS as they are still in the States for repair and return (sorry for perhaps the confusion in my first post !).

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Originally Posted by Stan

Any hints, war stories, etc most welcome as our sights come back shortly.

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Yep, the pictured sight is indeed a Zeiss, but used primarily for long distance shots and I didn't feel like removing it for this jpeg.

In any case, the rail is just as solid as if in one piece.

The forum you linked is the EDF and our organization is purely civilian under the MOI (which means tons when sent on humanitarian missions similar to Georgia last year where it was declared demilitarized... By Putin :D).

The defense forces have far more money and toys than I could ever imagine :mad:

Regards, Stan

If you really want some straight skinny by users for users on weapons and gear, I suggest you try Lightfighter.net. You have to join (free) to read the forums, but it is a very useful sight as far as equipment goes (not the place to discuss strategy, however). Also, follow the directions about filling out an intro before posting anything. And use the search function - lots of questions already answered.

The general consensus on the LF forum is that Aimpoint are the way to go. They have outstanding reliability ( you can leave them turned on for something like several years without replacing the batteries - easily through an entire deployment ) and have a very good warranty/repair team that is responsive to emails (and actively monitors the LF forum for issues...).

The Eotech (L3) you mentioned has its own thread (or more than one) about its problems with battery life, durability, and problems with the battery spring contacts. There are newer models that have solved some of the issues, but battery life is one area that the Aimpoint owns over the Eotechs.

Some feel a bit faster with the holographic crosshair on the Eotechs, but the Aimpoint Red Dot Sight practically never fails. (The US Army official RDS is the new M4Comp.) Plus, you can get the Aimpoint 3x magnifier (run with the RDS) and have the best of both worlds - a magnified sight for extended viewing/target ID, and a RDS for CQB shooting.

Email me if you have further questions, but I highly suggest you check out LF.

Tankersteve

Not an answer to the original post; just a comment regarding the last post.

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Originally Posted by tankersteve

The general consensus on the LF forum is that Aimpoint are the way to go. They have outstanding reliability ( you can leave them turned on for something like several years without replacing the batteries - easily through an entire deployment ) and have a very good warranty/repair team that is responsive to emails (and actively monitors the LF forum for issues...).

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I have to second that. On my second deployment to Iraq - a year-long deployment - I was a Company XO and thus intimately familiar with every little maintenance issue for each piece of gear. Not just because it was my job, but because our guys operated in small teams for extended periods and my greatest fear was allowing them to go out the gate with some piece of equipment that might crap the bed when they needed it. The EOTech was preferred, at first, largely because it was something new and it was a neat toy, but also somewhat because it was easy to quickly acquire a point of aim. But out of the 12 EOTech's that were fielded, at least 4 were damaged fairly soon thereafter. Throughout the deployment, only 2 out of 130 Aimpoint's needed any type of repairs. Both were mounted on SAWs, which my armorer insisted was the cause of the damage (he wanted me to forbid anyone from mounting them on SAWs; my policy was, if it makes you more effective, then do it; if it breaks, we'll fix it).

I think, by the end of the deployment, the consensus was that there was no significant advantage to the EOTech. If you were picking up each piece of equipment for the first time, then you might be able to acquire a point of aim quicker with the EOTech. If two people were well trained - one with Aimpoint, one with EOTech - no significant difference.

My experience has been totally different than Schmedlap's. I think that I know one guy in group who still uses an Aimpoint. Most teams still have them but they never get used. I would estimate that about half use the Eotech and the rest use the ACOG/J-Point combo. I have never seen many problems with the Eotechs. The J-point needs work but it is currently the only way to have a red dot sight for close range while keeping the ACOG.

SFC W

At that time, the ODA that worked in our AO had the J-points on their ACOGs. As lowly conventional guys, we could only add those to our wishlist. Not sure if the J-point is now issued to the rest of the Army.

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Originally Posted by tankersteve

If you really want some straight skinny by users for users on weapons and gear, I suggest you try Lightfighter.net.

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Steve, Thanks for the detailed info and link.

The QC folks took care of our battery compartment and illumination problems by updating the 511s to a newer generation. So far, other than postage to CONUS everything else will be free of charge.

As far as personal preference goes, our teams prefer the EOTech over their older "Red Dot apertures" when it comes to quickly acquiring a target with the stock folded. Much like Schmedlap opined however, it seems the EOTech and G-36 are just new toys :)

Seems to be some significant differences between the earlier EOTech models (511 series) and those currently employed in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

Apparently, the 552.A65 sights rectified both illumination and battery compartment issues.

Thanks to all - God knows how long it would have taken for me to get anything out of the company !

Schmedlap, pictured is the shorter rail on the G-36 just above the factory optics.

Regards, Stan

ALCON,

If I came across as having an agenda there, I apologize. I have never been issued an EoTech, but have used the Aimpoint and the ACOG. I was just relaying what I have learned on that website.

There is still plenty of debate on the Eo vs Aimpoint, even on the LF site. However, the general, overall durability of the Aimpoint and its outstanding battery life usually give it an edge. Many do feel a bit faster with the Eotech, but I don't like the little buttons and risk of shutoff.

The ACOG with J point/Dr Optic are great if you shoot 75% at distance and 25% at CQB distances, but the poor cheekweld (chinweld?) precludes more use. Still, I think it is a great combo, and intend to put it on a personal rifle. If you are expecting more CQB shooting, the Aimpoint RDS w/ 3x magnifier on a swing-away mount (get a good mount, like Larue) is a smart choice. Eotech makes one as well.

I know the newer Eotech has solved the old issues with battery contacts, etc. It now is down to personal preference - slight speed advantage over durability/long battery life. Sounds like a SOF vs GP type of issue :D

Tankersteve