Typical American's non-involvement/participation in foreign poor nation's daily lives
Stan:
I might add another dated 40 years ago observation.
1. I was a "freak" as Liaison Officer for our Peshawar base, me in Karachi.
2. I took the time and had genuine interest in knowing the educated elite as well as some, but not many, of the poorer, grassroots folks by both having them as my guests in my quarters and at local, native restaurants (where I ended up with two forms of dysentary, amoebic and bacillary, and a total of 7 attacks of both types, combined).
3. Conversely, my USMAAG shared housing buddies and all the State Dept. folks stuck (in Karachi) to behind the walls embassy parties among mainly Europeans and other US State and US business community types.
4. Result is I bluntly knew and know more, understand better, the uneducated, semi-literate, and of course the highly, mainly Sandhurst or Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard/Vasser (Pak gals from rich ruling families), etc. types, to know the mix and blend inside Pakistan, 1963-1965.
5. While some new hotels have been built both in Karachi and Peshawar (viewing K-2, the second highest mountain in the world, and a breathtaking view from any angle) it is my current opinion, and I have one Pakistani friend, age 70, living in Karachi who comes here every summer to Alabama to visit his businessman son, daughter in law, and granddaughter (all now US citizens, but still Muslims of the moderate Aga Khan type/variety), I do not think that Pakistan has progressed much nor changed it's thinking and ways much.
All this said, Pakistan in the interior is terrorist minded and thinking. Only on the coast in Karachi do you find, my view from here in the US, moderates.
The military of Pakistan and the local police and para-military use brute force to keep the people in line, otherwise, you would have constant blood baths and religious extremism would run rampant.
Madrass schools, nationwide, but particularly in Balochistan (Quetta), NWFP (Peshawar, Swat, etc.) is overrun with mad Mullahs creating terrorists, literally, who go in droves across the border into Afghanistan as I write this.
Cheers,
George Singleton
The truth is simple, not complex, your problem to deal with
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom Odom
George and 120,
I disagree with both of you. Both of you are trapped in the dillemma of what was the objective of the war. 120, general officers I respect still debate the "hard versus soft approach"; the very debate is tied to the lack of a clear objective for the war.
George,
Simple slogans like all Muslims are liars are essentially worse than useless because they obviate the need for any thinking. As for Baath=Nazism, that is equally simplistic and that very vein of simplistic thinking led Bremer to make simply stupid decisions: disband the Army, purge all Baath.
I would question the statement All Baathists Hate All Jews, especially the statement before Israel became an independent country.
As for service in the Waffen SS or Wehrmacht; that itself is a long list. The Free Officer Movements in the Middle East--Iraq, Syria, Egypt--were more anti-British or anti-French than pro-Nazi. As for contamination by association, consider that Raziel one of the 2 founders of the Stern Gang actually went so far as to initiate contact with the Nazis in the fight to kick the Brits out of Palestine.
Best
Tom
Tom:
Thanks for your views.
However, the truth is simple, whereas some folks (you?) want or wish to create complex problems to have complex answers. It is very simple, in large part, due to the huge number of uneducated people there. There is no changing these facts.
As for the Nazi stuff, only because the Peshawar FRONTIER POST for their and my security reasons does not archive letters to the editor of the FP do you not have in front of you dozens of letters radical, pro-Nazi/Hitler Pakistani Muslims in Pakistan and now living in Europe (Germany and Holland in particular) wherein they want the European nations to repeal hate laws passed after WW II which forbid anti-Semitism, open praise and adoration of Nazisms and Hitler, etc.
Those folks, and I mean college educated in Pakistan colleges, in European colleges, and some in US colleges, are unrepentant anti-semites and Jew haters and Nazi lovers.
If you want, but ONLY if this web site for broad view has an e-mail address I can scan a few of my letters of reply to pro-Hitler/Nazi in Pakistan and in Europe, which ran in 2006 in the Peshawar FRONTIER POST so you can read the hate and awful feelings of pro-Nazi Muslims still today...not just Baathists who are severely pro-Nazi in Iraq, but in Pakistan, Afghanistan, the former USSR three "stans", all over Europe.
Cheers,
George Singleton
The core fulcrum for war on terrorism is Pakistan & Afghanistan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tom Odom
George,
We will have to agree to disagree. Your facts appear to me to be more opinion because they center on Pakistan and are applied to Muslims in general.
The world is largely grey and inherently complex in my opinion and experience.
Best
Tom
Dear Tom:
I believe the world knows that bin Laden and al Qaida formed up in later stages in Peshawar, Paksitan, then moved over and into Afghanistan. From there they masterminded 9/11.
The reason I focus on Pakistan is that area remains the seat of organized Taliban and al Qaida terrorism, aided and abetted by the Wahabbi Sunni Islamics and their big bucks out of Saudi.
Of course there are other places and types of Muslims. Among places where I have been, some as late as 2006 are: Libya (Tripoli)Egypt; Turkey, (Istanbul,Trapazon, and Insurlick); Greece; lran (several cities and towns); Afghanistan (Kabul); Saudi Arabia (Daharan in particular);India; etc. Lebanon and Beruit were a great and peaceful place under the last King when I was there in 1965, you see some of my travels are very dated!
Here is a website you could read and get a better understanding of the tribal, introspective, "only view themselves of recent date to be Islamics, formerly were Buddists, etc." ....khyberwatch.com
Let me note this is a pro-independence 'Pakhtuniastan" site which geographic area lies across the Duran Line in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, and part of one of the ex-USSR "Stans". President Kharzi of Afghanistan is a Pakhtun and an ex-Taliban cabinet member, in fact. Yes, I have been in Kabul, as noted above, but under their last King, 1964, eons ago.
Then there are Pakhtuns and other tribes all seeking an independent nation of Balochistan, as I mentioned earlier today. These are Google verifiable facts, not mere opinions. Pakistan's Army has a hot fight every week inside Balochistan, which is where what little oil and gas exists for all of Pakistan.
Your coordial nature is appreciated. If you are current active duty, contractor, or otherwise involved in the war on terrorism and in Iraq, you may want to expand your readings on line to at least include khyberwatch.com. It is very germaine. Too, I recommend you read and write to the letters column of the Peshawar FRONTIER POST. Their non-publicized e-mail address is found on the Internet at:The Frontier Post.com
Key word is "The" as many out of date old FP websites no longer work.
Cheers,
George
PS - You might also Google any/most of the Israeli Internet sites using as a search line: George Singleton. They are picking up many of my Peshawar FRONTIER POST letters to ed and running them in Israeli media, particularly on various Israeli websites. A few Palestinian websites have picked up same FP letters but run them with a different "slant" to favor their point of view. Lying and distortion are a never ending struggle with Muslims boardly and specifically, when it comes to the broader war on terrorism, in my experience. GS.
Modern history of Taliban/al Qaida
Copied from khyberwatch.com
#1 10-13-2006, 05:09 PM
MandoKhail
Moderator Join Date: May 2006
Location: At home
Posts: 1,650
Intresting letter fm F post
Karzai a positive Pashtun
George L. Singleton USA GSingle556@aol.com
The era of disinformation and the equivalent of the Hitler "big lie" technique are underway in a growing series of letters from some recent letter writers. "Name calling" is senseless and I will not deal with that. Rather, let's look at just some hard facts that are publicly known and cannot be successfully lied about. 1. Former Afghan King Habiullah Khan proclaimed, “I am from the tribe of Benjamin.” This tribe is of our common religious heritage and is a good, positive statement. Remember, we are a civil, not a religious society in America. We practice absolute separation of church and state, despite liers using the term "Crusaders or Crusade", which is pure bunk. 2. Taliban feminist or feminism as I have used the term of late in this good newspaper means, to me, harsh, mean hearted, unkind, and supporting of terrible and criminal actions by Taliban who falsely claim to act "in the name of religion" as if their faith "drives them to murder and mayhem" inflicted on innocent, reasonable other Muslims and those of other faith systems. 3. The following quotes can be found on the Internet and are a few of the many accurate and true images and facts of and about the radical, heretical Taliban thugs and murderers: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html "The Taliban ("Students of Islamic Knowledge Movem-ent") ruled Afghanistan from 1996 until 2001. They came to power during Afghanistan's long civil war. Although they managed to hold 90% of the country's territory, their policies—including their treatment of women and support of terrorists—ostracized them from the world community. The Taliban was ousted from power in December 2001 by the U.S. military and Afghani opposition forces in response to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the U.S." "In late 1994, a group of well-trained Taliban were chosen by Pakistan to protect a convoy trying to open a trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia. They proved an able force, fighting off rival mujahideen and warlords. The Taliban then went on to take the city of Kandahar, beginning a surprising advance that ended with their capture of Kabul in September 1996." "Many Afghans, weary of conflict and anarchy, were relieved to see corrupt and often brutal warlords replaced by the devout Taliban, who had some success in eliminating corruption, restoring peace, and allowing commerce to resume. The Taliban, under the direction of Mullah Muhammad Omar, brought about this order through the institution of a very strict interpretation of Sharia, or Islamic law. Public executions and punishments (such as floggings) became regular events at Afghan soccer stadiums. Frivolous activities, like kite-flying, were outlawed. In order to root out "non-Islamic" influence, television, music, and the Internet were banned. Men were required to wear beards, and subjected to beatings if they didn't." "Most shocking to the West was the Taliban's treatment of women. When the Taliban took Kabul, they immediately forbade girls to go to school. Moreover, women were barred from working outside the home, precipitating a crisis in healthcare and education. Women were also prohibited from leaving their home without a male relative—those that did so risked being beaten, even shot, by officers of the "ministry for the protection of virtue and prevention of vice." A woman caught wearing fingernail polish may have had her fingertips chopped off. All this, according to the Taliban, was to safeguard women and their honor." "In contrast to their strict beliefs, the Taliban profited from smuggling operations (primarily electronics) and opium cultivation. Eventually they bowed to international pressure and cracked down on cultivation and by July 2000 were able to claim that they had cut world opium production by two-thirds. Unfortunately, the crackdown on opium also abruptly deprived thousands of Afgh-ans of their only source of income which opium growing and trade is recorded in history back to the time of the Egyptian pharaohs. Although the Taliban managed to re-unite most of Afghanistan, they were unable to end the civil war. Nor did they improve the conditions in cities, where access to food, clean water, and employment actually declined during their rule. A continuing drought and a very harsh winter (2000–2001) brought famine and increased the flow of refugees to Pakistan." "Most of the Taliban's leaders were educated in Pakistan, in refugee camps where they had fled with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party provided welfare services, education, and military training for refugees in many of these camps. They also established religious schools in the Deobandi tradition. The Deobandi tradition originated as a reform movement in British India with the aim of rejuvenating Islamic society in a colonial state, and remained prevalent in Pakistan after the partition from India. The Deobandi schools in Afghan refugee camps, however, are often run by inexperienced and semi-literate mullahs. In addition, funds and scholarships provided by Saudi Arabia during the occupation brought the schools' curricula closer to the conservative Wahhabi tradition. Ties between the Taliban and these schools remain strong: when the Taliban were defeated in the city of Mazar-i-Sharif one of Pakistan's largest religious schools shut down for a month and sent thousands of students to Afghanistan as reinforcements." "While the Taliban present themselves as a reform movement, they have been criticized by Islamic scholars as being poorly educated in Islamic law and history, with scholarly writing and debate. Their implementation of Islamic law seems to be a combination of Wahhabi orthodoxy and tribal custom (i.e., the all-covering burka made mandatory for all Afghan women)." "While the Taliban are made up mostly of Sunni Muslim Pashtuns (also referred to as Pathans), the Northern Alliance includes Tajiks, Ha-zara, Uzbeks, and Turkmen. The Hazara, and some other smaller ethnic groups, are Shiites. The Ismaili community, which suffered in Taliban-occupied areas, also supports the Northern Alliance. Although the Taliban called for a negotiated end to the civil war, they continued to mount new offensives. In September 2001, the leader of the Northern Alliance, Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud, died from wounds suffered in a suicide bombing, allegedly carried out by al-Qaeda, a terrorist organization with close ties to the Taliban." "The Taliban regime faced international scrutiny and condemnation for its policies. Only Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates recognized the Taliban as Afghanistan's legitimate government. After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the U.S., Saudi Arabia and the UAE cut diplomatic ties with the Taliban. The Taliban allowed terrorist organizations to run training camps in their territory and, from 1994 to at least 2001, provided refuge for Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda organization. The relationship between the Taliban and bin Laden is close, even familial—bin Laden fought with the mujahideen, has financed the Taliban, and has reportedly married one of his daughters to Mullah Muhammad Omar. The United Nations Security Council passed two resolutions, UNSCR 1267 (1999) and 1333 (2000), demanding that the Taliban cease their support for terrorism and hand over bin Laden for trial. The Taliban recognized the need for international ties but wavered between cooperation—they claimed to have drastically cut opium production in July 2000—and defiance—they pointedly ignored international pleas not to destroy the 2000-year-old Buddhist statues of Bamian. However, they made no effort to curb terrorist activity within Afghanistan, a policy that ultimately led to their undoing." "Even after their ouster, the Taliban's brand of radicalism threatens to destabilize other countries in the region including Iran, China, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan. The Taliban's relationship with Pakistan is especially problematic. A high percentage of the Taliban are ethnic Pashtuns; Pashtuns are a sizable community in Pakistan and dominate the Pakistani military. Public support for the Taliban runs very high in the Pashtun North-West Frontier province where pro-Taliban groups have held uprisings and sought to emulate Taliban practices by performing public executions and oppressing women." "In September, 2001, the U.S. placed significant pressure on the Taliban to turn over bin Laden and al-Qaeda in response to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. On October 7, after the Taliban refused to give up bin Laden, the US began bombing Taliban military sites and aiding the Northern Alliance. By November 21, the Taliban had lost Kabul and by December 9 had been completely routed. An interim government was agreed upon by representatives of Afghanis-tan's various factions during talks held in Bonn, Germany. On December 22, 2001, Hamid Karzai, an Afghan tribal leader, was sworn in as interim chairman of the government. Karzai initially supported the Taliban and is respected by many former Taliban leaders. In January 2002, the Taliban recognized the interim government." "In 2003, after the United States shifted its military efforts to fighting the war in Iraq, attacks on American-led forces intensified as the Taliban and al-Qaeda began to regroup. President Hamid Karzai's hold on power remained tenuous, as entrenched warlords continued to exert regional control. Remarkably, however, Afghanistan's first democratic presidential elections in Oct. 2004 were a success. Ten million Afghans, more than a third of the country, registered to vote, including more than 40% of eligible women.
Modern history of Taliban/al Qaida
Copied from khyberwatch.com
#1 10-13-2006, 05:09 PM
MandoKhail
Posts: 1,650
Intresting letter fm Frontier Post
Karzai a positive Pashtun
George L. Singleton USA GSingle556@aol.com
The era of disinformation and the equivalent of the Hitler "big lie" technique are underway in a growing series of letters from some recent letter writers. "Name calling" is senseless and I will not deal with that. Rather, let's look at just some hard facts that are publicly known and cannot be successfully lied about. 1. Former Afghan King Habiullah Khan proclaimed, “I am from the tribe of Benjamin.” This tribe is of our common religious heritage and is a good, positive statement. Remember, we are a civil, not a religious society in America. We practice absolute separation of church and state, despite liers using the term "Crusaders or Crusade", which is pure bunk. 2. Taliban feminist or feminism as I have used the term of late in this good newspaper means, to me, harsh, mean hearted, unkind, and supporting of terrible and criminal actions by Taliban who falsely claim to act "in the name of religion" as if their faith "drives them to murder and mayhem" inflicted on innocent, reasonable other Muslims and those of other faith systems. 3. The following quotes can be found on the Internet and are a few of the many accurate and true images and facts of and about the radical, heretical Taliban thugs and murderers: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html "The Taliban ("Students of Islamic Knowledge Movem-ent") ruled Afghanistan from 1996 until 2001. They came to power during Afghanistan's long civil war. Although they managed to hold 90% of the country's territory, their policies—including their treatment of women and support of terrorists—ostracized them from the world community. The Taliban was ousted from power in December 2001 by the U.S. military and Afghani opposition forces in response to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the U.S." "In late 1994, a group of well-trained Taliban were chosen by Pakistan to protect a convoy trying to open a trade route from Pakistan to Central Asia. They proved an able force, fighting off rival mujahideen and warlords. The Taliban then went on to take the city of Kandahar, beginning a surprising advance that ended with their capture of Kabul in September 1996." "Many Afghans, weary of conflict and anarchy, were relieved to see corrupt and often brutal warlords replaced by the devout Taliban, who had some success in eliminating corruption, restoring peace, and allowing commerce to resume. The Taliban, under the direction of Mullah Muhammad Omar, brought about this order through the institution of a very strict interpretation of Sharia, or Islamic law. Public executions and punishments (such as floggings) became regular events at Afghan soccer stadiums. Frivolous activities, like kite-flying, were outlawed. In order to root out "non-Islamic" influence, television, music, and the Internet were banned. Men were required to wear beards, and subjected to beatings if they didn't." "Most shocking to the West was the Taliban's treatment of women. When the Taliban took Kabul, they immediately forbade girls to go to school. Moreover, women were barred from working outside the home, precipitating a crisis in healthcare and education. Women were also prohibited from leaving their home without a male relative—those that did so risked being beaten, even shot, by officers of the "ministry for the protection of virtue and prevention of vice." A woman caught wearing fingernail polish may have had her fingertips chopped off. All this, according to the Taliban, was to safeguard women and their honor." "In contrast to their strict beliefs, the Taliban profited from smuggling operations (primarily electronics) and opium cultivation. Eventually they bowed to international pressure and cracked down on cultivation and by July 2000 were able to claim that they had cut world opium production by two-thirds. Unfortunately, the crackdown on opium also abruptly deprived thousands of Afgh-ans of their only source of income which opium growing and trade is recorded in history back to the time of the Egyptian pharaohs. Although the Taliban managed to re-unite most of Afghanistan, they were unable to end the civil war. Nor did they improve the conditions in cities, where access to food, clean water, and employment actually declined during their rule. A continuing drought and a very harsh winter (2000–2001) brought famine and increased the flow of refugees to Pakistan." "Most of the Taliban's leaders were educated in Pakistan, in refugee camps where they had fled with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party provided welfare services, education, and military training for refugees in many of these camps. They also established religious schools in the Deobandi tradition. The Deobandi tradition originated as a reform movement in British India with the aim of rejuvenating Islamic society in a colonial state, and remained prevalent in Pakistan after the partition from India. The Deobandi schools in Afghan refugee camps, however, are often run by inexperienced and semi-literate mullahs. In addition, funds and scholarships provided by Saudi Arabia during the occupation brought the schools' curricula closer to the conservative Wahhabi tradition. Ties between the Taliban and these schools remain strong: when the Taliban were defeated in the city of Mazar-i-Sharif one of Pakistan's largest religious schools shut down for a month and sent thousands of students to Afghanistan as reinforcements." "While the Taliban present themselves as a reform movement, they have been criticized by Islamic scholars as being poorly educated in Islamic law and history, with scholarly writing and debate. Their implementation of Islamic law seems to be a combination of Wahhabi orthodoxy and tribal custom (i.e., the all-covering burka made mandatory for all Afghan women)." "While the Taliban are made up mostly of Sunni Muslim Pashtuns (also referred to as Pathans), the Northern Alliance includes Tajiks, Ha-zara, Uzbeks, and Turkmen. The Hazara, and some other smaller ethnic groups, are Shiites. The Ismaili community, which suffered in Taliban-occupied areas, also supports the Northern Alliance. Although the Taliban called for a negotiated end to the civil war, they continued to mount new offensives. In September 2001, the leader of the Northern Alliance, Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud, died from wounds suffered in a suicide bombing, allegedly carried out by al-Qaeda, a terrorist organization with close ties to the Taliban." "The Taliban regime faced international scrutiny and condemnation for its policies. Only Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the United Arab Emirates recognized the Taliban as Afghanistan's legitimate government. After the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack on the U.S., Saudi Arabia and the UAE cut diplomatic ties with the Taliban. The Taliban allowed terrorist organizations to run training camps in their territory and, from 1994 to at least 2001, provided refuge for Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda organization. The relationship between the Taliban and bin Laden is close, even familial—bin Laden fought with the mujahideen, has financed the Taliban, and has reportedly married one of his daughters to Mullah Muhammad Omar. The United Nations Security Council passed two resolutions, UNSCR 1267 (1999) and 1333 (2000), demanding that the Taliban cease their support for terrorism and hand over bin Laden for trial. The Taliban recognized the need for international ties but wavered between cooperation—they claimed to have drastically cut opium production in July 2000—and defiance—they pointedly ignored international pleas not to destroy the 2000-year-old Buddhist statues of Bamian. However, they made no effort to curb terrorist activity within Afghanistan, a policy that ultimately led to their undoing." "Even after their ouster, the Taliban's brand of radicalism threatens to destabilize other countries in the region including Iran, China, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan. The Taliban's relationship with Pakistan is especially problematic. A high percentage of the Taliban are ethnic Pashtuns; Pashtuns are a sizable community in Pakistan and dominate the Pakistani military. Public support for the Taliban runs very high in the Pashtun North-West Frontier province where pro-Taliban groups have held uprisings and sought to emulate Taliban practices by performing public executions and oppressing women." "In September, 2001, the U.S. placed significant pressure on the Taliban to turn over bin Laden and al-Qaeda in response to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. On October 7, after the Taliban refused to give up bin Laden, the US began bombing Taliban military sites and aiding the Northern Alliance. By November 21, the Taliban had lost Kabul and by December 9 had been completely routed. An interim government was agreed upon by representatives of Afghanis-tan's various factions during talks held in Bonn, Germany. On December 22, 2001, Hamid Karzai, an Afghan tribal leader, was sworn in as interim chairman of the government. Karzai initially supported the Taliban and is respected by many former Taliban leaders. In January 2002, the Taliban recognized the interim government." "In 2003, after the United States shifted its military efforts to fighting the war in Iraq, attacks on American-led forces intensified as the Taliban and al-Qaeda began to regroup. President Hamid Karzai's hold on power remained tenuous, as entrenched warlords continued to exert regional control. Remarkably, however, Afghanistan's first democratic presidential elections in Oct. 2004 were a success. Ten million Afghans, more than a third of the country, registered to vote, including more than 40% of eligible women.
