Is this a violation of ROE or not?
U.S. Snipers Allegedly 'Baited' Iraqis
In Vietnam our troops would lay down a rifle on a trail that was booby trapped to explode when someone fired it. I don't see a problem with snipers baiting targets with the right bait. I'm wondering how others feel about this type of inflicting casualties since we used these tactics in Vietnam and nobody seemed to think it was a problem as far as I know.
An example of the "easier wrong"
"nobody seemed to think it was a problem as far as I know"
This seems to me to be exactly the problem. How on earth do we know why someone might be picking this stuff up? Are they simply some parent who doesn't want their kids finding it? Do they intend to turn it in to CF? Those scenarious are equally as valid as somone picking it up to make an IED. The simple fact is we don't know, so how do we justify killing them without any further information?
This is an example of a "type 1" or "false positive" error. If/when we make a mistake in this situation, we have set up a situation where we kill people innocent of any crime. The type 1 error is morally worse than the "type 2" or "false negative" error - which is why our entire justice system is based on the premise of "relasing 10 guilty men before 1 innocent man goes to jail."
Are Iraqi civilians worth less than this? Do we allow our fear of attacks on our soldiers to push us to create situations where we reduce risk to ourselves by accepting, if we're wrong about the intentions of those picking up the materials, the deaths of innocent people? That's not what I thought I the value of "courage" meant. And it's not "choosing the harder right." I hope we stop this, and soon.
Too few details to give an opinion but I will anyway...
This incident smells like a dead cat. Everything from "rushing the proceedings" to the snipers own actions of checking the dead guy?!? Why did they come down to "check out" the dead guy? Was this sniper team in support of a mission? Were they simply camped out in their hide site and decided to shoot someone? Who really knows but I am miffed as to why they came down out of their perch to check on the dead fellow and then take the time to supposedly plant wire on him? Again, this really smells suspicious... If I had mistakenly shot someone, I would probably come up with a better lie or cover-up, something like, "...after I dropped him his buddies came out and hauled off the 20 lbs. of SEMTEX and the bag of nails he was carrying, swear on my mother First Sergeant..." but I am not sure I would come down to the corpse and plant something?!?
I am sure more details will follow in the coming days and weeks.
Snipers are essential to COIN/Small Wars
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Steve Blair
Still....let's try to keep this one down to a discussion of the role of snipers in COIN/Small Wars and not engage in too much speculation. As mentioned before, sniping has come a long way in terms of acceptance and training, but there are still those who would prefer to see it go away.
Vietnam saw a great deal of experimentation in sniping; in areas ranging from equipment to tactics and training. What is the role of the sniper in Small Wars, and perhaps more to the point who should be establishing that role? If a small war is really an extension of law enforcement (or statecraft), does it rest with the military or elsewhere? And if the policy does go wrong or change, where does that dead cat land? In the lap of the shooter or in the office of those who make the policy?
Sniping by its nature can lend itself to abuse by those seeking metrics for things (like the body count). It is also by its nature easy to marginalize or discount by those who don't understand it or its application. It's the wider nature of the discussion that interests me...both on the military and LE sides of things.
Steve,
I think when we talk about sniper operations and their use on the battlefield there needs to be clear ROE, regardless of intensity of the combat. However, I think in this war much like in Vietnam there is a lot ambiguity to sift through at the SSG and below level. Not sure I buy into the account that this particular example was a "classified" operation to kill insurgents. Many times these programs remain inside SOF units and not the 25th ID, not too bag on my Tropic Lightning brothers since I am a former Golden Dragon but this sounds too "Apocalypse Now" to me.
Now ROE rests in the Commander's lane of responsibility, but each individual out there returning fire has the moral and legal obligation to be sure of their target before they squeeze the trigger. So it is two-fold, the Commander dictates the policy but the individual rifleman ensures he follows it.
More to your question of Small Wars/COIN, I think snipers have a vital role to play in this arena. Especially, when applied in the Scout Sniper role and doing RSTA as their primary mission and target interdiction as their supporting mission. In Iraq there have been numerous success stories of snipers interdicting IED emplacment teams along MSR's, and they routinely provide overwatch for the infantry maneuvering to and on the OBJ, so their roles are necessary and needed.
PT