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IMO this thread is a waste of time as it is spinning around in a circle.
In some aspects this was foreseen by JMA when the proposals to expand the topics was made.
It is difficult often to keep track on multiple threads on the same topic/sub topics as actually many comments bleed into others so one loses easily the oversight.
Actually the events in the Ukraine are running it's course anyway until the dust settles by winter.
Good question---maybe the fear of an open ended war triggered it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA
Georgian(volunteer?) on the Ukrainian side
http://scout-thedeaddistrict.blogspo...og-post_2.html
One Swede, one Georgian - it would be nice to put them in one grave.
Impossible to answer without knowing what was said and what else was going on at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA
Because they desperately needed money, and efforts to support the price by cutting production had failed catastrophically. The cartel broke. Cartels often do when under stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA
I think we all understand that this is not just "humanitarian aid", but...
Can the Russians bring in enough force in this convoy to change the momentum in the conflict? Outlaw estimated elsewhere that 500-600 individuals will be involved, but haven't the Russians already infiltrated much larger numbers? Is it a game changer, or a face saver?
Is it possible that the convoy is intended not to bring military aid, but to provoke the Ukrainians into stopping it, which could then serve as a pretext for more aggressive action? I don't know how devious the Russians are prepared to be, but it would be a huge embarrassment for the Ukraine if they descended on the convoy with full armed force only to discover (publicly, of course) that there's nothing remotely military about it. The Russians could then accuse the Ukraine of obstructing humanitarian aid and use that to justify forcing an opening... or is that too convoluted to enter their minds?
Not trying to imply an answer, just looking for opinions.
There is a major difference between perspective and ability. We don't prohibit people from posting their perspectives or opinions based on their experience. You are encouraged to challenge their views, but you can't attack them personally because of their view, and you can't tell them they can't post because they don't have experience or expertise. In fact, if you change your approach you have a great opportunity to use your experience to educate others. If they disagree you, then you just have to live with it like the rest of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA
You have vivid imagination ;) Major channels several hours before reported that convoy is to cross the border near Kharkov, trucks get Ukrainian plates and crews.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayuhan
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m7hk-nO5wa...cjpX4j1m24.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lPTPlTGJdQ...07865720_3.jpg
Putin might be a dick, but this georgian guy is now as good as dead.
upd. Crap, there are a lot of dead guys with such plastic carpets, so this particular adventurer is probably alive and well.
See, what major channels? Russian? Because multiple EU, US, Japanese and Ukraine sources are saying different on their news channels.Quote:
Originally Posted by mirhond
In fact to quote Ukraine: "No humanitarian convoy of Putin's will be allowed to cross the territory of the Kharkiv region," Ukraine's interior minister Arsen Avakov wrote on Facebook. "Provocation by the cynical aggressor will not be permitted on our territory."
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/0...0GD0P320140813
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28768746
Hardly so much has been confirmed, everyone is squabbling around it and way it's looking right now all those trucks might get passed off.Quote:
But the BBC's Daniel Sandford in Moscow says that long discussions are continuing about whether the lorries will actually be allowed to enter.
Those trucks mostly mean, to me, Russia is disengaging. Putin gets to look like, hey I'm doing stuff. Within my means. Food and stuff. Will give him leeway when sending more. Keep himself kosher with the Russian population in the east for essentially 'abandoning them'. Because if he doesn't invade, and Ukraine finishes off the rebels, and they will unless Russia comes, they're not going to like him much anymore either.
I'm just going to set this down here, and walk away :)
http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...l-army/375932/
excerpt:
Quote:
The Kremlin, which has waged a massive disinformation campaign aimed at legitimizing Russia's annexation of Crimea and support for separatists in eastern Ukraine, has employed so-called "troll armies" to invade online territories armed with pro-Moscow rhetoric.
A June article by Max Seddon of BuzzFeed reported the Kremlin was spending millions of dollars to pay English-speaking Russians to promote President Vladimir Putin and his policies in U.S. media like Fox News broadcasting and The Huffington Post and Politico news sites. Trolls are reportedly expected to manage multiple fake accounts and post on news articles 50 times a day, often with sentiments as simplistic as "Putin makes Obama look stupid and weak!"
In order to promote its narrative, the Kremlin has adopted a two-fisted strategy, unleashing its troll armies even as it tightens Internet restrictions at home. On August 1, Russia enacted controversial new legislation aimed at muzzling social media, the last bastion of the country's embattled opposition and a free flow of information about the war in Ukraine.
Anton Nosik, a popular Russian blogger and programmer who is sometimes referred to as the "father of the Russian Internet," says the Kremlin is falling back on a time-honored strategy in its propaganda war on Ukraine. But this time, he says, the stakes are higher than ever before. (BuzzFeed reports that at least one trolling company—Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg—is expected to spend more than $10 million in 2014 alone.)
"Comments were already serving as a well-financed Kremlin instrument of war against the opposition, even five years ago," he says. "So what's going on now is nothing new. But what's absolutely clear is that now they're spending more money on Ukraine than they ever spent against Alexei Navalny, or Ekho Moskvy, Kommersant, Gazeta.ru"—Russian media actors who have been targeted by the Kremlin in the past—"and all the rest."
I'd rather believe Poroshenko's Executive OfficeQuote:
Originally Posted by Nyxilis
Ukraine doesn't object to Russian participation in humanitarian mission to Lugansk, said Deputy Head of Executive Office Valeri Chalyi, 11 Aug.Quote:
Украина не возражает против участия России в работе гуманитарной миссии в Луганск и область. Об этом заявил заместитель главы Администрации Президента Украины Валерий Чалый в эфире телеканала ICTV в понедельник, 11 августа.
http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/340...yia-prezydenta
then Facebook minister Avakov who is well-known liar and clown.
LOL... loyal to the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayuhan
Caught unawares, dithering, scared, etc.
History will show whether the CIA provided advanced warning or failed again. Either way it has been a Keystone Cops situation.
We still have no idea what was said in this rumored phone call, or to what extent the rumored call was responsible for a change in Russian plans. Given that lack of knowledge I can't see how the incident can be used as a basis for a conclusion, unless of course you've already reached the conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA
Likewise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayuhan
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirhond
comrade mirhond---here is a report that your favorite Russian commander from the FSB/GRU is evidently seriously wounded by a Ukrainian Seal team.
so much for quality Russian mercenaries.
https://twitter.com/MrKovalenko?orig...70919530876928
mirhond---another report for you to mull over---titled Russian PM comments against Putin "hacked and or drunk"
East of Brussels @EastOfBrussels · 3h
#Russia's PM says he's ashamed of #Putin's government, resigns. Yes, hacked or Dmitry is really drunk ;) #ukraine
It appears now from Russian sources that the second top Russian mercenary has been wounded---one now in each of the last two mercenary held towns.
True story, fake story or the exit plan being put into play?
Secondly---there have been a series of tweets suggesting that the drivers are from an elite armored unit and will remain inside the Ukraine and others will drive back--there have been multiple reports recently of a large number of tanks parked in the surrounding areas in the forests but they have no more mercenary crews for them.
OSCE web site reports uniformed personnel w/no markings are crossing the border where their teams are reporting from.
Wounding link Russian news source;
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1378586
This FT article is behind a registration 'wall', which allows limited access:Quote:
In an anonymous military classroom somewhere in Moscow, 12 portraits in identical tortoiseshell frames stand on a metal bench placed on a dais. In front of each picture is a bunch of six roses, red and pink. The dead.....were operatives of Russian special forces. All 12 died in Ukraine in recent weeks. Officially, they were all on holiday.
It ends citing Nigel Inkster, of IISS, ex-SIS (MI6):Quote:
It is about subversion, it is about espionage with limited use of deniable special forces and the use of deniable proxies...It is a war that is never really declared.
Link:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f28913f6-1...#axzz3AMNKyZaz
Have not seen the confirmation geo tag on this photo posted today--but it appears that two Russian Buk command vehicles pulled up directly behind the supposedly "humanitarian aid convoy" parked now near the mercenary crossing points not controlled by the Ukraine.
So much for the Putin statement that the "aid" delivery had been planned and approved by the ICRC who evidently is still awaiting the accurate load out details on each truck from Moscow---or maybe the ICRC just requested Buk air defense in case they were attacked by 'little green men" from Mars?
Mars.https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow/s...264000/photo/1
More Russia AD equipment (photos in the tweets) trailing behind the "humanitarian aid" convoy accompanied by two armed Russia copters.
http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...he-move-again/
That looks like a 9K22 Tunguska mounted to a Kamaz truck. It is an anti-aircraft weapon equipped with both missiles and 30mm guns. The missiles are capable of knocking out low-altitude aircraft flying at under 3,500 meters, though missile variants have a range up to 10 kilometers. and the guns could be used to target low-flying aircraft, incoming projectiles, or even ground forces. When used in combination with more advanced missile systems which have been spotted in the area, the 9k22 is a formidable addition to Russia's forces in the area.