Vets, Troops Not in Uniform Now Can Salute Flag

Vets, Troops Not in Uniform Now Can Salute Flag
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Nov. 7, 2008 – A change to federal law allows U.S. veterans and military personnel not in uniform to render the military-style hand salute during the playing of the national anthem.

The law took effect earlier this month, according to a Department of Veterans Affairs news release.

“The military salute is a unique gesture of respect that marks those who have served in our nation’s armed forces,” Veterans Affairs Secretary Dr. James B. Peake said. “This provision allows the application of that honor in all events involving our nation’s flag.”

The provision builds on a change that went into effect last year. That change authorized veterans and military personnel not in uniform to render the military-style hand salute during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag.

Traditionally, veterans’ service organizations rendered the hand-salute during the national anthem and at events involving the national flag while wearing their organization’s headgear. Otherwise, as with all other Americans, the etiquette is to place the right hand over the heart.

The most recent change was part of the 2009 Defense Authorization Act, which President Bush signed Oct. 14.

U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, an Army veteran, sponsored both pieces of legislation.

“The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in one’s military service,” Inhofe said in a written statement. “Veterans and servicemembers continue representing the military services even when not in uniform. The U.S. Code is now consistent for veterans and all service members in regards to the symbolic gesture of the military salute.”

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Originally Posted by SWJED

Otherwise, as with all other Americans, the etiquette is to place the right hand over the heart.

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I always thought that that putting your right hand over your heart was simply how the salute was rendered when not in uniform - in other words it was still rendering a salute. Did I get that wrong?

That's long been my understanding and I've been doing it in civilian clothes and since i retired -- for over 50 years.

Seems like another dumb, unnecessary -- and, more importantly, unenforceable -- law to me. See a bunch of 30 somethings in civilian clothes; how do you know who's a soldier not in uniform (well... :wry:), a 'veteran' and who's neither but breaking the law??? :rolleyes:

I'm not a big fan of the current wave of "new traditions".

The current mania for every unit higher than squad level having a coin is one that kind of sickens me (there was a day when coins were rare, and actually meant you accomplished something).

I was horrified to see that when coming back from Iraq, someone or another had the bright idea of presenting each veteran with a triangle folded flag in a shadow box. Last time I checked, that particular gesture had a deeper meaning, and was reserved for military funerals.

Oh, well. I'm not the one in charge of military traditions and symbols....

Yeah, this seems like a solution in search of a problem for me. I also agree, 120mm, and am not a fan of many of these "new traditions."

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Originally Posted by 120mm

I was horrified to see that when coming back from Iraq, someone or another had the bright idea of presenting each veteran with a triangle folded flag in a shadow box. Last time I checked, that particular gesture had a deeper meaning...

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My unit had the bright idea of handing out bronze stars to everyone. Well, almost everyone. There were enough of them that it would have taken forever for the battalion commander to hand them all out, so each award was presented by the immediate superior in the chain of command (BN CO hands them out to COs; COs hand them out to XOs and PLs, and so on). My question was -- why bother with the ceremony? A ceremony is intended to add meaning to something, which is a strange course of action to take after choosing to hand out the awards to everyone and, in doing so, removing all meaning.

My unit handed out our awards in a brown paper bag. Not a joke.
Reed Dyer
"Ohh Lookie, I got a Bronze Star!" "Aww Man, I only got an ARCOM" :eek:

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Originally Posted by reed11b

My unit handed out our awards in a brown paper bag. Not a joke.
Reed Dyer
"Ohh Lookie, I got a Bronze Star!" "Aww Man, I only got an ARCOM" :eek:

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I had the dubious honor of having my section handed off between three different units; Each one would leave, giving themselves Bronze Stars all around. We developed a pact to not give ourselves anything, but the last unit left the same time we did, and they tried to give us all cookie-cutter ARCOMs and AAMs with generic write-ups. (While giving themselves BSs all around) We "forgot" to show up to receive them.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SWJED

“The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in one’s military service, ...

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Enough said.

One of the things that bothers me each and every year abroad with the Marine Ball are the wannabes dressed in their former uniforms, unshaven and without an appropriate haircut :mad: They look more like Christmas trees with foreign decorations (provided as a customary courtesy upon rotation) dangling from both lapels (knowing good and well, they are not authorized).

Probably one of the funniest scenes was on Andrews in the early 90s when a US diplomat (*ic passport holder) was stopped by an MP during taps and subsequently fined :D. Couldn't help but laugh as I held my salute with the Diplo asking the MP "where is the base flag?" :rolleyes:

Some traditions were never meant to be changed. They stand alone as they should.

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Originally Posted by Stan

Enough said.

One of the things that bothers me each and every year abroad with the Marine Ball are the wannabes dressed in their former uniforms, unshaven and without an appropriate haircut :mad: They look more like Christmas trees with foreign decorations (provided as a customary courtesy upon rotation) dangling from both lapels (knowing good and well, they are not authorized).

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I won't ever wear blues again and I have exactly ONCE wore blues. Because I'm a freaky long hair bearded academic. But, I'll buy the first round for any serving Marine.

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Originally Posted by selil

I won't ever wear blues again and I have exactly ONCE wore blues. Because I'm a freaky long hair bearded academic. But, I'll buy the first round for any serving Marine.

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Sam, certainly not directed at you. After 23 years of following the rules, my retirement did not entitle me to do as I please with my uniform (or does it?).

Every year I shave off the beard and get what closely resembles a high and tight (albeit Army standards :D). My point however is, respect for my service and uniform. Because I'm retired does not give me the right to place my decorations any way I wish, nor to wear unauthorized foreign awards (any way I wish), and certainly not to just dawn my blues any way I like.

Sadly, I'm not a serving Marine and will have to buy my first and subsequent rounds myself :mad:

buy you a drink. :D

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Originally Posted by Stan

Sam, certainly not directed at you. After 23 years of following the rules, my retirement did not entitle me to do as I please with my uniform (or does it?).

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Of course.

To reiterate I won't be putting the uniform on any time soon long hair, beard or not. I did not retire from the Marines.

Though I got to thinking about it and which dress/uniform/grooming standard? The current one or the one from when I served? Somewhere in between? Really doesn't matter I don't own any of my old uniforms and I'd kind of feel silly wearing them today.

3.5 years of life from two decades ago was a roller coaster of a time and a blast. I don't claim anything from that time. Not veterans preference. Not uniforms. Nothing but some good memories and friends.

Just a strange point of view.

I'll buy the three of you the first round. I started regrowing my bead on November 11. :D It is in the itchy stage and there is more salt than pepper in it.

Ken,

When you received your first issue of 782 gear, did it include a stone axe and a flint knife?

Semper Fi!

or fourth hitch -- that was after I finally made Cpl. Flint knives weren't included until way later, about the time I was allowed in the Staff NCO Club... ;)

First uniform issued was a Fig Leaf, winter service, green, size lg/long as I recall... :D

I had a Gunnery Sgt. James Bresnahan (a Boston Southie)
Who claimed that when God said "Let there be light!" He was the duty electrican.

Gunnery Sgt, Bresnahan confided in us that A R M Y stands for Ain't Readey to be a Marine Yet!

Enjoy the holidays, Ken. If you are anywhere near New Smyrna Beach I'll buy you that drink. I'm fishing here until Dec. 20.

He may well have been... :D

Unfortunately, I'm about 500 plus miles west and a little north, so I'll have to pass on the drink, much as I wish I didn't have to. Do me a favor and have an extra tomorrow ;)

Whoops!

At your orders! Jamesons straight up over a single ice cube.

:cool: Long life and strong children! Slante'

Did you know that in the first 20 years of the Corps, the commands to march and fight were given in Galic?

Begorra!