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This post has been edited down, as the link provided acted as the catalyst for creating this thread. It originally appeared in a far wider discussion on 'Infantry Unit Tactics, Tasks, Weapons, and Organization', which suddenly looked at Finnish practices in the Winter War and WW2:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=4550 (ends)
You can't ignore also this point, that can compensate for some comfort deprivation.
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Fin.../1135245022270
Kaur,
What a find, that last link! Just one example:Quote:
During the Winter War a ridiculous amount of drugs came to Finland. By the end of 1940, 1,511 kg. of opium alone was delivered to the military pharmacy in Helsinki. It was supplied mainly by the American Red Cross and the Swedish state.
I’ve seen passing mention of amphetamine use in the Wehrmacht, as well. Perhaps someone should start a “Combat and the use of performance enhancing substances” thread. I understand why it hasn’t happened, but some frank public discussion of steroid use amongst contemporary military personnel might not be a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbfpo
SWC have a number of medical-related threads scattered in various arenas and to my knowledge nothing like this subject.
Thread created at ganulv's suggestion, hence his post and Kaur's appearing before this.
The work of Nicolas Rasmussen, a professor at the University of New South Wales, seems to be a good place to start on the subject of amphetamine use. Here’s a link to a video of Rasmussen responding to some questions regarding amphetamine use during World War Two.
The USAF has issued stimulants to its pilots over the years and afaik continues to do so. I would be interested in knowing whether any of the other branches authorize use (recon units and reactor engineers, perhaps?). In the case of the Air Force the official “why” seems to be as an anti-fatigue measure on longer missions, but I do wonder whether they also see off-label use to improve reaction time and heighten awareness.
I am also curious as to the extent of use of Red Bull/Five Hour Energy time drinks by deployed personnel. Does anyone care to share their observations?
I have yet to see any form of amphetamine or other prescription stimulants being authorized for use by the Army. That said, ordinary stimulants like caffeine and energy drinks are everywhere. When I was in Iraq Rip Its were available at every chow hall though in smaller cans than the industrial sized kegs that one routinely sees on the shelf here in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by ganulv
The Army used to issue 100 tablet bottles of 5mg of Dextro Amphetamine Sulfate to every Medic in his aid kit. They were authorized to issue 'em to the Troops they supported in combat and even on training exercises. They did that latter bit very rarely (but almost always claimed they'd issued them after every big exercise -- we had happy Medics back then... :D ). There were few to no problems with that in the 50s and early 60s and both Troops and the Medics acted sensibly and I'm unaware of any major abuse scandals in that period.
Unfortunately -- or fortunately, view point dependent -- that issue and usage was halted during Viet Nam when abuse became the norm instead of the exception. Contrary to UBoat 509s statement, I'm told there still some units that have access to newer, less side effect-prone stimulants. Don't know...
That's the title of a book Richard A. Gabriel wrote in 1988. Chapter 5 (I believe) is called The Chemical Soldier, where, if memory serves, he discusses efforts to reduce psychological casualties through the use of drugs.
And even D-amphetamine sulfate doesn’t have that bad of a side-effects profile for an otherwise healthy user. Extended-release forms of several substituted amphetamines are now widely available. They wouldn’t be the choice if rapid onset was vital, but they would work well to keep sleep at bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken White
If you don’t mind a little bit of the restaurant’s food ending up at the cooks’ places at the end of the night things are going to go a lot smoother in the kitchen the next day. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Ken White
The Nazi's loved methamphetamine - dosed their chocolates with the stuff. Hitler took multiple amphetamine shots a day. The Japanese distributed the stuff pretty widely too.
Does Russian vodka and Somali Khat count, too?
The Incas chewed coca a lot and IIRC the Zulus and other extremely foot-mobile African tribe armies made use of some chewing stuff, too.
Though in all seriousness I do understand the role of alcohol as a coping mechanism, even if it is not the optimal choice. I have always assumed that all of the drinking in Beowulf had something to do with anxiety over the possibility of Grendel showing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuchs
The Quechua still do, as well as consume coca tea. It’s supposed to help with life at altitude. I don’t know that there have been any good studies about that, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuchs
There’s kola nut in West Africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuchs
Also worth noting that the nicotine content of Nicotiana rustica (the “wild tobacco” traditionally used by American Indians) is around 9% as compared to the 1%–3% of cultivated tobacco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganulv
It's an ancient bravery-enhancement drink.
as my sometimes sober friends say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuchs
Curious, is steroid use common in combat arms units? I've heard whispers in cadet land but it's nearly impossible to seperate the solid info from the bs here
I cannot say that it never happens but it is most definitely not sanctioned. I have seen more than one guy get hammered over steroid use. Guys on steroids tend to be emotionally labile and they also tend to focus on strength and size at the expense of endurance which is more important than pure strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cuyahoga Kid
Having read the Wikipedia entry I'm not convinced of its useful application in combat:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat
It shows the effects as:There are also unpleasant drawbacks too when suffering from withdrawal.Quote:
Khat consumption induces mild euphoria and excitement, similar to that conferred by strong coffee. Khat can induce manic behaviors and hyperactivity similar in effects to those produced by amphetamine.
I have a vague recollection that in Somalia, in 'The Blackhawk Down' incident, a comment that if the raiders had gone in later most of the local fighters would be in non state to fight - having had their Khat chewing session.
Not to defend anabolic steroid use, but even for guys not at war there are confounding factors in regards to this. Which is to say, it could well be that the kind of person interested in cycling anabolic steroids might be emotionally labile to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uboat509
In the college sports programs I have first- and second-hand knowledge of a lot depends on the head coach. Plenty talk a big game to their players and bosses about how they don’t stand for that crap. But some of those coaches pull aside the linebacker who put on fifteen pounds of muscle in June and some of them don’t. This isn’t an accusation and it isn’t based on any observations of my own, but I have to wonder if something similar doesn’t go on in the military, i.e., there are units in which the whip is cracked and units in which the blind eye is turned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uboat509
I think a lot of people just don’t understand the relationship between strength, power, and muscle size. Or that steroid use + lifting for muscle mass can lead to connective tissue injuries (when a football player tears his ACL, MCL, and LCL at one fell swoop forgive me for assuming that he’s juicin’). A lot also don’t seem to understand how effective judicious steroid use can be for a number of injuries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uboat509
The filaments need to grow stronger as well, true. Likewise, martial arts practitioners and (semi) pro fighters also need to strengthen their bones with repeated impacts. Add speed of muscles and muscle memory to the list. Muscles alone actually don't mean much.
Then again, users of those substances (not only steroids) do not need to train that much and still have substantial growth of muscle mass. This can lead to a reduced risk of injury.
Last time I I saw an obvious steroid in a changing room. He got pissed off by where I had laid my towel on the bench.
I was thinking of how useless all his muscles will be if he actually attacks me. I had kept the proper distance and would have cracked his right knee if he had tried to strike a blow with those big slow arms. He was really aggressive and obviously having a discussion between his small inner angel and devil about whether to attack.
Personally, I don't get what much muscle or even the removal of the last fat from the belly is good for.
I could certainly benefit from redistributing some weight, but I haven't had a single occasion of insufficient strength in years.
Just out of curiosity... do armies that issue amphetamines for use in combat make any provision for the post-rush physical and mental crash? It does inevitably come, and the longer and higher you stay up, the harder you fall. The thought of a bunch of armed men in the throes of a major post-speed hard landing is... interesting, to say the least.
Some air forces enforce a 12-hour or similar break between long combat missions. That's supposedly enough to deal with go-pills' side effects..
This is why the Army does not sanction the use of potent amphetamines. I do know guys who are prescribed Adderal for ADHD which is an amphetamine but the thereputic dose for Adderal is much lower than the doses you would use for performance enhancement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayuhan
but that sounds like a ridiculous amount of amphetamine to me. It’s a double shot of espresso vs. an extra-large shot in the dark made with three double shots of espresso. Judicious use of amphetamines can put someone at the fabled 110%, but if you try to dose to get to 150% you’re going to end up with someone who is less good than the guy who took none at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by Uboat509
A short (28 mins) BBC Radio Four podcast, available for a month and the precis says:Link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08n3wnkQuote:
Laurie Taylor talks to Lukasz Kamienski, Lecturer in Political Science at at Jagiellonian University, Poland, and author of a book which examines how intoxicants have been put to the service of states, empires and their armies throughout history. They were prescribed by military authorities but there's also been widespread unauthorised use by soldiers from the American Civil War to the Vietnam War and the rebel militias of contemporary Africa. Whether to improve stamina, increase fighting spirit or deal with shattered nerves, drugs turn out to have been a 'secret weapon' in warfare.
Also, the writer, Norman Ohler discusses his study into the overwhelming role of drug-taking in the Third Reich. According to his research, Nazi Germany was permeated with cocaine, heroin, morphine and, most of all, methamphetamines, or crystal meth, and crucial to troops' resilience.
Two books are mentioned: Norman Ohler wrote Blitzed (Penguin, UK 2016 and reissued since):https://www.amazon.com/Blitzed-Drugs...s=Norman+Ohler
Lukasz Kamienski wrote Shooting Up (Hurst, UK 2016):https://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Up-S...kasz+Kamienski