A Couple More (Mostly Random) Thoughts
1- CAT-As need to be beefed up to the point that they are self-mobile (meaning 4 vehicle crews). Otherwise, they take combat power out of the fight to execute their missions, or their missions will always be second fiddle to combat operations.
2- We acknowledge that we need CA and PSYOP, but only have enough active for the SOF community. WRONG ANSWER. If we need the capability, we need the capability. There is enough issues integrating "non-lethal" because it is NOT (generally) what the Army does. Having your "non-lethal" guy being an overweight, out-of-shape reservist with an attitude ("I'm special so I don't have to comply with your standards") who shows up at the last minute, without resources or collective training, makes integration almost impossible. Yes, I've thrown out every stereotype there is, but believe me, I've seen most of them.
3- If everyone needs CA and PSYOP all the time (or even most of the time), they aren't SOF, and can't remain only in the SOF community. That means that the BCT CA officers, and CA & PSYOP NCOs can't be the cast offs (those that aren't "good enough" to hang with the SOF guys), and that the active BCTs need their own assets, all the time. The best solution I see for this a CO in the BSTB. Yes, CA & PSYOP are different, but they are often focused in the same areas, and alot of their indiividual training requirements (language, culture, etc) are the same. Plus, neither element is large enough to justify a company of its own- a CA CO (even augmented as in 1- above) and a TPD combined would still be among the smaller COs in the BCT.
4- If what surferbeetle is describing is the norm, than there is something completely disfunctional somewhere. If we can have a LAD before we even redeploy, we should be able to align a team at LEAST to meet our ITC, MRE and deployment. And rotating them based on a different deployment schedule is ridiculous. Same as the JTACs, an enabler like that should task organize, deploy with, and redeploy with the BCT- I don't care what service or component.
It seems that I have touched a nerve...
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Originally Posted by
82redleg
1- CAT-As need to be beefed up to the point that they are self-mobile (meaning 4 vehicle crews). Otherwise, they take combat power out of the fight to execute their missions, or their missions will always be second fiddle to combat operations.
2- We acknowledge that we need CA and PSYOP, but only have enough active for the SOF community. WRONG ANSWER. If we need the capability, we need the capability. There is enough issues integrating "non-lethal" because it is NOT (generally) what the Army does. Having your "non-lethal" guy being an overweight, out-of-shape reservist with an attitude ("I'm special so I don't have to comply with your standards") who shows up at the last minute, without resources or collective training, makes integration almost impossible. Yes, I've thrown out every stereotype there is, but believe me, I've seen most of them.
3- If everyone needs CA and PSYOP all the time (or even most of the time), they aren't SOF, and can't remain only in the SOF community. That means that the BCT CA officers, and CA & PSYOP NCOs can't be the cast offs (those that aren't "good enough" to hang with the SOF guys), and that the active BCTs need their own assets, all the time. The best solution I see for this a CO in the BSTB. Yes, CA & PSYOP are different, but they are often focused in the same areas, and alot of their indiividual training requirements (language, culture, etc) are the same. Plus, neither element is large enough to justify a company of its own- a CA CO (even augmented as in 1- above) and a TPD combined would still be among the smaller COs in the BCT.
4- If what surferbeetle is describing is the norm, than there is something completely disfunctional somewhere. If we can have a LAD before we even redeploy, we should be able to align a team at LEAST to meet our ITC, MRE and deployment. And rotating them based on a different deployment schedule is ridiculous. Same as the JTACs, an enabler like that should task organize, deploy with, and redeploy with the BCT- I don't care what service or component.
82nd Redleg has some good points. Keep in mind that I have spent time in all of our Army's arena's: Active, Guard, Reserve, and Civil Service. My observation is that most of the Army has not been resourced and trained like the tier one units such as the 82nd, 101st, and SF; however GWOT has changed many things.
Many of the issues mentioned, imho, can be boiled down to prioritizing and resourcing. Head count for both active and reserve CA and PSYOP types is low, our allocated budgets track with our headcounts, and the majority of active training (from AIT to OBC and onwards) has not addressed the use of CA and PSYOP. Before GWOT the majority of units that I have supported did not know that CA existed. This of course impacted the integration and budgeting process then and it still does to an extent (1610's were not funded, requests for CA support were an afterthought, etc.)
IMHO a civilian Assistant DA, City Planner, City Manager, Civil Engineer, Doctor, a Nurse, a Policeman, and a Teacher is a practicing specialist who brings needed skills to COIN work that are not found on active duty. Most of these folks do not fit the 18-25 year-old demographic (it takes time to acquire mastery in these employment fields). Despite this we need to integrate these types of folks into the COIN fight, others may disagree.
As an aside how many active duty folk also hold a 'part-time-job' in addition to 'active-duty-job' and sometimes risk their 'active-duty-job' in order to serve their nation in their 'part-time-job'? Few do.
Increasing the number of Active Duty CA and PSYOP, training the force on CA and PSYOP, and resourcing CA and PYSOP are certainly answers to some of these issues, in particular if a generalist in this arena can get things done. My observation is that sometimes you need a specialist and it is for this reason that CA and PSYOP reserve types are still around. Your mileage may vary.
As for 120mm's observations, some are valid and some not so. We in the CA community are looking for good, smart soldiers...send me a PM and I will get you linked up with someone who can help you sign up and then you can straighten things out. ;)
Surferbeetle has it right
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Originally Posted by
Surferbeetle
82nd Redleg has some good points. Keep in mind that I have spent time in all of our Army's arena's: Active, Guard, Reserve, and Civil Service. My observation is that most of the Army has not been resourced and trained like the tier one units such as the 82nd, 101st, and SF; however GWOT has changed many things.
True on the training and resourcing -- and there's also an intangible difference. Can't speak for the 101 today but knowing folks in the other two organizations there is an attitudinal difference --and an arrogance -- that can be problematic and annoying to some.
That attitudinal difference makes it hard for the Airborne and SF communities to accept the sometimes seemingly casual attitude of other communities. Having spent a great many years in both communities, my take is that the arrogance is okay but it should not blind one to the value of other organizations and it must not take the form of bigoted disdain -- nobody will work well if they sense that attitude coming from the people with whom they're supposed to cooperate...
The SOF / conventional force divide is stupid and counterproductive; the AC / RC divide is even more so. Both need to disappear.
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IMHO a civilian Assistant DA, City Planner, City Manager, Civil Engineer, Doctor, a Nurse, a Policeman, and a Teacher is a practicing specialist who brings needed skills to COIN work that are not found on active duty. Most of these folks do not fit the 18-25 year-old demographic (it takes time to acquire mastery in these employment fields). Despite this we need to integrate these types of folks into the COIN fight, others may disagree.
This is a critical point -- those civilian skills ARE necessary and the likelihood of any AC CA type ever acquiring and enhancing them to the point a civilian practitioner who is a Reservist is microscopic. Those skills are hard to obtain, are critical and the fact that the City Manager is overweight and doesn't look like a recruiting poster is immaterial.
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As an aside how many active duty folk also hold a 'part-time-job' in addition to 'active-duty-job' and sometimes risk their 'active-duty-job' in order to serve their nation in their 'part-time-job'? Few do.
True and some things all the active folks need to contemplate are:
- Navy and DoD studies show conclusively that reservists excel at the non-operational skills and will invariably outperform their active counterparts. In the operational arena, that is reversed. The point is that for many things, the reservist or guardsman brings a lot to the table.
- Many dislike the money spent on the reserve, contending it would be better spent on the active forces and they justify this by saying that when reserve units are called up, they still need additional training. That ignores the fact that a Guard Brigade taking 90 days to train up to deploy is far less time than it would take to recruit, fill and train a Brigade from scratch.
- The guardsman and reservist put in a lot of kitchen table time for no pay in doing their military jobs. Also, due to the dispersed nature of reserve units, the reserve leader is more independent and resourceful than his Active counterpart. Due to the nature of many reserve units, he or she will generally be a better troop leader than most active compatriots (Before you flame, realize that leading and commanding are different things. Also consider the reserve company commander may be 150 miles from his Bn CO, a situation many an active company commander has often wished for :D ).
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Increasing the number of Active Duty CA and PSYOP, training the force on CA and PSYOP, and resourcing CA and PYSOP are certainly answers to some of these issues, in particular if a generalist in this arena can get things done. My observation is that sometimes you need a specialist and it is for this reason that CA and PSYOP reserve types are still around. Your mileage may vary.
There is no doubt that more CA and PSYOP folks are needed, both active and reserve -- though the best CA assets will always be reservists due to the daily skill practice -- and there's no doubt that some AC assets need to be in position to accompany the General Purpose forces, not all should be SOF.
off topic, I know, but I have respond to Reed
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Originally Posted by
reed11b
Also having been both sides of the house, one thing that Active side could do to gain some of the advantages of the reserve side is reduce the amount of movement from unit to unit. Keep people in a unit longer.
Having been on both sides of the house myself, I disagree with you. I think active duty has the right idea. It prevents buck SGTs from calling the 1SG by his first name after being in the same unit for 10 years (just what I experienced in the NG). In AC, just about the time that folks get TOO comfortable with each other, they move on.
On active duty, it is also possible for folks (NCOs in particular) to homestead on posts forever. My last 1SG had been at Campbell for 12 years, most of it in the same BCT and BN. There were several NCOs in my BN at Campbell that had been there for 5+ years.
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The big advantage of the NG over active is that the soldiers know each other and how to work w/ each other and when they do have a deployment, that experience and knowledge stay w/ the unit for a long time.
Also consider that active duty work together every single day, as opposed to just drills. In my own experience, I developed much closer relationships with peers, superiors and subordinates much more quickly than I did in the Guard unit I was in for 4 year. Relationships forge quickly in the military, from what I've seen. Maybe they don't work and live in the same town like NG, but professionally, relationships on active duty flourish pretty quickly, IMO...it makes sense, you work with them everyday.
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In the 41st BCT ORNG that I used to belong to, you could no longer tell the difference from prior service soldiers and those that had only served in the guard once we returned from OIF. Us prior service guys shouldered a lot of the weight early on, but this diminished fast. By the time we returned from Iraq, I would say that the M-day soldiers were every bit as skilled as the active side of the house.
I'm glad it went well for your unit. In theory, it should work that way. Not sure it ends up being that way across the board. Not sure if the NG/RC SOF dynamic works differently. With that being said, I never met a CA guy or PSYOPer that wasn't RC...
We've had this discussion before so no sense in revisiting it
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Originally Posted by
jkm_101_fso
...It prevents buck SGTs from calling the 1SG by his first name after being in the same unit for 10 years (just what I experienced in the NG). In AC, just about the time that folks get TOO comfortable with each other, they move on.
but if a 1SG is really competent he won't really care what SGT Heebly calls him, he will care how Heebly performs and if that's good, then Heebly can call him "SOB" and get away with it...:wry:
More to the point, that 'move on' bit also prevents a lot of accountability processes. For example; if one is a BC and has a mediocre 1SG (there are a lot of them about) but one knows the 1SG's leaving in six months, there is little incentive to fix the problem. If one is himself leaving in a few months, there's no incentive to get rid of bad apples that will not be moving with one.
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...My last 1SG had been at Campbell for 12 years, most of it in the same BCT and BN. There were several NCOs in my BN at Campbell that had been there for 5+ years.
That propensity for staying tends to make one police the ranks a little better, poor performers get noticed and zapped...
That's one factor that gives both the 82d and 101st a little bit better overall performance capability than many units (having said that, all units go through cycles -- I've seen both Divisions in sad shape).
Both sides of the AC / RC mix have good and bad points and traits, in the end, it's all about the quality of the people -- and, mostly, there is little difference between them and they're pretty good. For which we should all be thankful.
Thanks for the CA baton...
Chores permitting I'll see if I can set aside some time this weekend to research and add a post on military government/civil affairs history. I will also try and address in a short space why it's still around and why it's a fun/rewarding specialty for those of us who practice it...
Somebody else will have to take the the SF and PSYOP batons.
It's above our paygrade but
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Originally Posted by
Uboat509
...I do get annoyed, however when I hear people complaining about how SF gets more of the AD CA guys when, for years, SF was the main user of CA assets. I also can't help but wonder if, after OIF ends and OEF draws down if you won't see a return to the old division of labor between SF and Big Army.
somebody needs to work on both those problems There's no need for either. The structural imbalance is an easy fix.
While a certain degree of professional jealousy will always exist and is even healthy in small doses, when it gets in the way of getting the job done, it should be fixed. It seems that there's a fair degree of cooperation and understanding at the working level, be nice if it could be raised to the echelons above reality...
Perception vs reality vs situational awareness vs discipline
Think all of those terms neatly explain what everyone is talking about and yet they are the way we judge soldiers today. If I'm disciplined and force those around me to be disciplined then none of the other terms apply to how I act or how I present myself. ACUs I hate them personally, but will I be caught in something else? No, I am still a soldier and do as soldiers should. In todays kinder, gentler Army we have issues such as these. Yes we want intelligent, free thinkers, but they also must understand the institution that is the Army. Sorry to admit this but it is not the officers job to enforce uniform adherence. Unfortunately it has started to come to this, many NCOs today are nothing more than glorified privates. As assholish as it sounds I make a point to make a uniform correction everyday. We kinda make it into a challenge to get other NCOs involved, before you know it, it catches fire. Be, know, do! Do they still teach that?
Nothing like hot brass. I absolutely love it when hot brass goes down the back of my uniform. Think I want that on my wrist? I got it, it is flippin' hot out but not as hot as hot brass. I'd have to venture out and say if your dying while conducting movement then you may want to reevalute your physical conditioning. When was the last time you did body armour runs? Funny the more you use it the easier it gets, just a thought. For a truly unique experience throw the promask into the mix. Goes back to training and pushing yourself and those around you beyond your normal limits. There is plenty of talk on here about training won't beat that dead horse anymore. Basics, basics, basics.
Funny the other day as I was logging into AKO there was this great picture of a soldier in a shop in Iraq wearing a ball cap. Perception it must be a SF guy, reality it was some conventional officer. What is the picture we are trying to paint? Sorry not a fan of the doesn't matter how you did as long as you looked good doing thought process. Know your job, know the regulations and present yourself in a professional manner and the rest will take care of itself.
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As far as other kit, I've never understood why people would want to carry all sorts of extra gear. If anything I'm going to buy the farm because I leave something behind because I dont want to carry it. The sterile ACUs thing I defintely get though for many reasons, the aforementioned protective measure, as well as the elimination of rank as a concern when working with centers of gravity.
Kit. Want some I got 7 tough boxes, 2 duffle bags, and 3 kit bags of Army kit. Everytime I get ready to go back I have to go through RFI and add to it. There is stuff that has been in plastic for 5 years, more kit than you'll ever think about using. Hell I just about could outfit my own indig force, wait already have my wife and kid. Sterile does little to nothing except that on occasion we make CF staffs think we out rank the team sergeant and team leader, can be quite comical at times, especially when they find out it's actually the opposite. When dealing with locals it does absolutely nothing since your PPE covers it all anyways.