Penalty of living in a democratic society...
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Originally Posted by
JMA
...as if the hostilities were temporary and that we should maintain the career planning and the flow of such courses. Looking back it is easy to see the folly of it all.
There's the rub. People. Particularly Politician people...
That leads to this:
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...good for the career but not a war that needs to be taken by the scruff of the neck and dealt with. (I understand and identify with this approach because we experienced similar.)
Which most of us also experienced.
Not the career of individuals nearly so much as it is protecting the institution. That and the unwillingness of politicians to got to all out war. Understandable but frustrating.
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..while it is possibly good for the British Army to 'exercise' their Brigade HQs under operational conditions its not good for the NATO war effort in Afghanistan.
True but it is, long term, good for the Army -- and it is very good, long and short term, for the Politicians who do not have to contend with irate voters whose husbands, wives ,daughters and sons have to do those extended deployments.
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(How the the US do this in Vietnam and what were the lessons learned?)
Mostly on a voluntary basis, the tour was a year but one could extend that for 'X' days or months. A few people were involuntarily retained. IIRC, the J2, the senior Intelligence director stayed for over three years. Not totally sure of all lessons learned. Anecdotally, that burnout was a major problem and that some people 'married the job' and were unable to shed a lot of baggage from it -- assignment dependent of course. The guy who ran an Officers Club for four years merely got rich, not traumatized. :wry:
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Maybe three years is all you need out of an individual. And those who want to stay on for longer may not want to return to a peacetime army when its all over anyway. In a lot of ways the career guys are really not suited for this type of utilisation anyways.
Agree. That's part of the rub in democratic societies, difficult to balance politically acceptable, affordable and effective...
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(where sports took precedent over valuable field training).
That too. The democratic society syndrome, I mean. The Mothers and other Voters of America are happier when their kids are playing war on the pitch rather than actually engaging in what they're paid to do...:D
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I suggest that the key is continuity. In that the turnover of staff within units should be restricted to a churn of 10-15% tops. Continuity can be achieved through a greater commitment to that specific war and the same troops used on a semi-permanent basis. Impossible if great numbers required.
All true. I'm not sure how the senior Staff and Commander long tour effort is being managed in Afghanistan. IIRC, there was talk of about 400 key people who would rotate in and out of the same job on a 'for the duration' basis.
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So yes the Brits were tasked with securing that part of Helmand and disrupting the opium cycle and they have failed spectacularly on both counts. Will the Marines do better? Can't do worse.
Unfortunately, they were given a virtually impossible task and inadequate resources with which to perform that task. It was and is a task that in many respects was not truly a British national interest (nor a US one but that's another thread...). The Marines may do 'better' -- a very relative term -- but that'll be as much due to better resourcing as anything. Then again, they may nor do as well. We'll see.
Penalty of living in an inefficient, chaotic democratic society where domestic politics mean more than the war at hand and the Politicians absolutely do NOT want Armed Forces that are too effective... :rolleyes:
Still, all things considered, I wouldn't change that. The good outweighs the bad -- even for those that get to go do the bad stuff and have fun while eating poorly and living rough. :cool:
Never assume your comment is small, David
You bring up some very good points, actually. Your armchair may be far away, but as you're one of the ones who's footing the bill for all this, your comments are as valid as any (and more than some when taken in their proper context). There is an unfortunate tendency to belittle those who are not in uniform, but it's also easy to forget that it's the folks in armchairs who foot the bills and try to keep things running.
That said, the government side (in and out of uniform) does have an obligation to clearly communicate as much as possible what's going on. When they fail (as in Vietnam) the folks in armchairs get restless and start complaining about footing the bill for things. When communication is lacking or questionable, the natives get restless. And that can have major and unintended consequences.
New UK government stance on Afghanistan
JMA asked:
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What is the anticipated approach of the new government?
IIRC both parties support our national role in Afghanistan; David Cameron has certainly visited those deployed - twice I think - and a number of MPs have too. It will be interesting if any of them get junior ministerial posts; notably Adam Holloway, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Holloway and this Iraqi report he wrote:http://defenceoftherealm.blogspot.co...e-in-iraq.html
The BBC has this mainfesto summary for all the parties, note LibDems 'critically support' the mission:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/p...ur&col3=libdem
They also have this comment on coalition policy:
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The British role in the war will continue, though both parties in the coalition hope that conditions will allow for the start of a British withdrawal in the not-too-distant future. If they do not, there could be tensions.
Link:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/p...10/8678135.stm
My own view, from afar, is that the new government will not alter policy an iota for months, partly out of concern for the US reaction to any perceived weakness on remaining stalwart. Cuts in public spending could eventually push the issue back to the fore.
Whoops, I overlooked the newly elected MP Rory Stewart; I expect he'll be on the backbenches for awhile.
Hope that helps.