Breaking...occurred at finish line. I'm on scene now. 1 block from site.
Reports of two explosions. Seems like pipe bombs.
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Breaking...occurred at finish line. I'm on scene now. 1 block from site.
Reports of two explosions. Seems like pipe bombs.
Pipe bombs were my first guess, a witness claimed to have seen 'suicide bombers' via Twitter, but even he doesn't seem very sure of himself. I'll try to find his post again.
For the time being, some decent updates are coming from this account:
https://twitter.com/911BUFF
And a video of one of the explosions:
http://youtu.be/oeVyJ3UgIfw
Would anybody care to guess whether it was remotely detonated judging by the videos?
Reporting and Twitter is of course a mess with conflicting reports. This is what I experienced/saw:
- Finish line explosion reportedly occurred 2:50. I was three streets over, and did not hear or feel anything noticeable.
- Got to site on other side of the block – and 40 minutes after explosion. Was to told clear out after reports of finding secondary devices.
- Did not see any wounded people on the streets – only bloody nipples on the runners (gotta tape em up for the marathon, bro).
- Must have been some fires, or was incendiary device - b/c FD was running hoses (otherwise would want to preserve crime scene).
- ATF/FBI on scene in under an hour.
Going to be a lot of first wave excitement over this one.
Appreciate the ground floor reports.
Curious to see what comes next . . .
A device exploded @ JFK Memorial Library, confirmed by Boston PD.
One academic points out that:Several tweets that a suspect is in custody; alongside higher casualty figures and the inevitable array of video footage and stills.Quote:
The Waco siege ended 20 years ago this week. Oklahoma City occurred two years later.
Listening to some really interesting radio feeds out of Boston:
http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web
Hard to follow everything sometimes.
Possibly a product of hasty/sensationalist journalism, the NY Post is reporting a Saudi national as a suspect, in custody.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...9uC2PDGIjYBalO
I saw that they're also reporting 12 dead and 50 injured.
Sensationalist is exactly what comes to mind.
Obviously :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuchs
Nonetheless, I think it's quite hard for people to simply 'tune out' something so close to home once the initial story breaks.
I posted this earlier and in bold updates:Quote:
Several tweets that a suspect is in custody - now denied by BPD; alongside higher casualty figures - now denied by BPD and the inevitable array of video footage and stills.
So I've seen one source reporting a car-bomb of some sort in Morris County New York.
Anyone see anything else? Or is it bunk?
It's mostly bunk, but normal in the aftermath of this kind of incident. People are imagining additional threats.Quote:
Originally Posted by TV-PressPass
Doesn't surprise me. I see that infowars has already started up the coal-powered-conspiracy-machine. Not going to link that.
Great sig pic btw. I haven't read Sluggy Freelance since college.
Some of the unofficial reports speak of ball bearings or BBs in the bombs and of many severe lower extremity injuries, legs blown off and such. If this is all true, you have:
two devices going off almost simultaneously,
timed to go off when there were a maximum number of people around,
at a very high profile event,
constructed perhaps to broadcast metal fragments,
at a level where a lot of severe injuries are caused.
From this, my civilian, untrained self concludes, whoever did this was a pretty proficient terrorist, who either is a natural born genius who read a lot or was pretty well trained by people who knew what they were about.
CBS is reporting explosives were placed in 6-Liter pressure cookers.
Fwiw, the failed Times Square bombing also involved a pressure cooker.
I speculate that they are looking very closely at pax lists for flights that left the east coast for Europe with connections further east.Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
We need Stan to surface and give some insight on this! This is straight up his alley.
The bombing occurred after the professionals and serious amateur runners had already finished – skipping the timeframe where there would be the most live-tv coverage. The people it targeted, who were finishing at that time, were the types who run to raise money for charity – normal Joes. The people who were standing around cheering, were likely to have been friends and families of those normal Joes.Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
Yeah, maybe. But the last few years of thwarted domestic terrorist attacks has involved a cavalcade of retards (literally in several cases) – so maybe the bar has just been set so low that “average” looks like “genius”.Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
In other words he wanted it to hurt the most vulnerable, the most innocent of all present?Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
bourbon, whats your overall assessment if you don't mind giving it?
The object perhaps was the average guy, the average American. That was the target in the failed Times Square attack too, average people in a very famous 'American' place. Times Square and the Boston Marathon are both things that would appear on the front cover of a 'Visit American' travel brochure.
In addition maybe the timing has something to do with relaxing as an event winds down. I read that is the best time to hit a patrol, when they are approaching the end and beginning to relax. This whole thing seems a cut above average in execution.
I am not trying to be contrary for its own sake, just playing devil's advocate.
That is also the most dangerous time when transporting a prisoner...at the beginning and the end at least they used to teach that in my day.:wry:Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
Anytime you have multiple devices it indicates to me at least some higher form of planning and organization. Which always elevates the overall dangerousness IMO.
I may be making too much of a generalization in terms of runners and spectators at the time; but it looks that way to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by slapout9
As an example my cousin was down by the finish line but left 30-60 minutes before the bombing; the "event" for her was watching the pro's finish - after that it was just kind of like watching a torrent of neighborhood joggers.
The Boston marathon also draws pro and serious runners from all over the world; the winners are usually like Kenyan or Ethiopian. When this international crowd is finishing is probably the height of live-tv coverage. The bomber(s) did not select this timeframe to hit.
Is such a change in the "demographics" relevant? I think we can't overlook it.
That is very significant ! if it turns out to be correct, which I think it may well be. The Rich and The Powerful are either protected by vast public resources or the private resources of the rich. The average Joe or Jane is vulnerable and they are a very,very big Target!:(Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
Assumption:
It was not a lone bomber, he/she had help.
Why?
1-timing, the bombs were timed somehow?
2-multiple placements.
3-concealment and camouflage was needed until detonation.
Anybody else feel free to jump in and add comments!
Sorry Slap, just finished my day job !Quote:
Originally Posted by slapout9
Where to begin ?
First off, let’s discuss what we really have. Nothing on official sites is in and nothing should be as forensics takes tons of time.
A simple pipe bomb with that much of a blast effect and secondary’s intended to bounce victims back and forth is not some average bomb maker on a lone quest. They had help and these were not some ordinary pipe bombs in backpacks. It’s also clear that some of these failed devices were intended for First Responders.
Imagine how many people yesterday had backpacks on. How many put them down, discarded their trash, etc. ?
As far as fragmentation goes, detonated at ground level against a wall and direct the Sierra forward up to 50 yards low level. Claymore anyone ?
Some speculate that extremists groups (KKK and McVeigh) were angry with failed homeland security Bravo Sierra and really angry with a bunch of fast Africans winning every year at what is considered nearly as popular as the Super Bowl.
Will keep you informed :cool:
Well, I wouldn't necessarily put it that way - but your perspective may give insight towards suspect groups or ideologies. If this "demographic" insight is legit, then which target would: the radical/anarchist hit? The militia type? The jihadi? The marxist? The eco-warrior? etc…Quote:
Originally Posted by slapout9
As far as breaking out the class-struggle lenses? I wouldn't consider most Kenyan pro-marathoners to rich and powerful. This may sound counter-intuitive to military-types - but marathons and "fitness" would probably be considered bourgeoisie activities in our country. Frankly, it costs extra to eat healthy in our country - and time spent exercising is time not on the job. Its a paradox, but I believe the lowest socio-economic levels in our country have the highest rate of obesity.
More uniformed speculation from me.
As Bourbon suggested, what if timing was intended to miss the foreigners? This thing is as much PR as anything else and it wouldn't play as well in countries in Africa, the Levant and South Asia if Kenyans and Ethiopians got blown up.
Hey Stan: They say it was not a high explosive and I think the smoke was white. Would a black powder bomb do the trick?
The daily foot-traffic at the Boylston St Starbucks had the highest concentration of attractive women in all of New England. Someone detonated a bomb in front of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by slapout9
I'm thinking ugly chicks are responsible. :rolleyes:
Thanks Stan, I know you can only share so much on such topics. This is helpful insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan
Hey Carl,Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions based on a white cloud of smoke before X-spray samples are in with forensics. Black powder, that is the real stuff made of sulfur, etc., is rare these days in ammunition like shotgun shells which contain pelletized powders. These so-called smokeless powders or even pyrodex are class C vs A and among other things easier to obtain.
Glad to help where I can and there is always PM ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
Wise words. I get all wrapped up in trying to figure things out and can't stop myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan
You can buy black powder ready made here. I checked one web site and they can ship up to 50#. There is a big market for muzzle loading hunting, re-enacters and those who like to shoot black powder guns and cannon.
No worries, we all have our days !Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
All you need is some hot water and a little of this and that, and you still get basic black powder with less risk of blowing yourself up :D
50 pounds is a lot of Sierra. Wonder why we can't keep the criminals from playing around :rolleyes:
Stan:
They deliver it Fed-Ex ground to an actual house, no PO Box, and they require a name and a birthday. So that may discourage the riff-raff. Of course if you were planning on clearing out of the country...
If it was low order, doesn't that mean if properly done, there may be no record of commercial purchase? Mixing up black powder yourself or maybe matchheads even, wouldn't leave much of a trail to follow.
As soon as I heard about the explosions my thought was that it might have had as much to do with Tax Day and Patriots’ Day as with the Marathon.
Did the Boston Marathon Bomber Time the Explosions to Guarantee the Most Possible Casualties?, by Chris Kirk. Slate, April 16, 2013.
If it was directed against the gov instead of the Americans, a gov facility would be a much more likely target I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by ganulv
Besides, nobody much outside MA, ME and WI has ever heard of Patriots Day.
Which may or may not be suggestive. (PD is very much a “real” holiday in Mass—banks are open, but schools and state offices are closed.)Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
At this point we don't know if the devices were timed or detonated by cell phone. In fact we know so little at this point that speculation is just that - speculation. I know the impulse to speculate is overwhelming, but there's neither a basis nor a need for assumptions or conclusions.Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
I'd second this, if we're calling stuff in from the sidelines. I'd also postulate that most Americans outside of a specific socioeconomic circle really don't care about the Marathon. If you wanted to hit "heartland America" where it hurt, you'd go for NASCAR or NCAA football. We also shouldn't assume that the bombs went off when they were supposed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by carl
Actually, some of this reminded me of the old-school IRA stuff. And after all, this was only decided on Monday. Not saying that it's necessarily linked to this, mind, but some folks have long memories and not everything that happens today has to be about what happened today (or even yesterday).
Quite. There's been plenty of uninformed blather so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayuhan
Most Americans don't care much about the Boston Marathon or know much about it, but is that true about people overseas? I don't know. NASCAR might be a more lucrative target but how many overseas people know about it? Again, I don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Blair
(I was just thinking too that maybe the South scares foreigners, violent rednecks and all that. I know that if you tell people overseas you are from Chicago they can be just a little scared of that. All those movies had an effect.)
Perhaps all this talking about this is to no point, but it is entertaining, sort of like the old men sitting around the general store discussing the world. Most of us around here are old.
I wasn’t necessarily suggesting that the date was significant for the American public at large, but rather than it might have been significant for whoever planned and carried out the attack. Forensic psychologists probably have a term for that, though I don’t know what it would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Blair
If you were a home grown group or individual who wanted to "start a revolution" in the US against the government Patriots Day is the perfect day to do it - the day that Paul Revere made his famous ride almost to Concord where the local militia fired the "shot heard round the world" - it would have huge significance to a US based anti-government group.Quote:
Originally Posted by ganulv
There are two things wrong with this view (or my view may turn out to be completely wrong).Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCurmudgeon
First is, why would anybody would wanted to strike at the gov, not strike at the gov? Why blow up average people? That would be alienating the prime audience.
Second, most of the people in the country never heard of Patriots Day. I never did until yesterday and I thought it was one of those contrived 3 day weekend holidays like Presidents Day. It might have huge significance in MA but in OH or IL people never heard of it.
Sorry, that wasn't what I was getting at. Having worked on both Public and Private Security details they are hard Targets compared to Joe or Jane Doe. So my point was supposed to be that he/she/group X/or whatever went for the most vulnerable group of Targets, which was the general public in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
:d:d:d don't know why the smiley faces didn't come up!Quote:
Originally Posted by bourbon
Except NASCAR and NCAA football venues are much harder Targets than a 26 plus mile open air type event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Blair