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I think nuking them would be less cruel and more likely to create order. (That's a comparison, not a suggestion.)

I'm not looking to re-involve myself in this topic, but I do have a point for consideration with regards to dealing with Somali piracy. It appears to me that there are two competing paradigms driving...

The specifics are debatable, but two points that support this idea: one, the ICU reduced piracy without greatly increasing wealth in the region; two, I don't know many people in the US who are...

Not sure it's an either/or. Seems likely that it can work either way, with each reinforcing the other.


For a while, yeah. But piracy is going to be an issue on some timeline no matter what. We...

That's just good (well, less-bad) luck on the part of the victims. They happened to get caught up in a crime that has a wider economic impact. We didn't send pirates to the Straits of Malacca, after...

I'm aware you were being sarcastic, carl. That's kind of my point: we both agree that "if it doesn't hurt me or mine, it must be okay" isn't a good basis for an enduring legal tradition. Thing is,...

We got here through my insistence that Somalia deserves to have its problems taken seriously. I was able to turn your words into what I have to say was a pretty awesome counterargument, yes, but the...

Heh, I thought that statement might stir up some commentary.

There is some confusion, though. I'm not saying "Why should we bother trying to stop piracy?" Rather, I'm saying "Why is stopping...

As tequila pointed out, the ICU and al Shabaab are two different entities.


I suppose that's one way of looking at what I'm advocating. Another way of looking at it is that I'm proposing more...

You're replacing one extreme with another, more fantastic extreme. I don't see how that's helpful, even as facetiousness.


Another invasion is the exact opposite of what I'd propose. The basic...

I've never denied the necessity of dealing with acts of piracy. What I argue is that acts of piracy do not negate other facets of the problem.


To state it in such terms is to ignore how the...

You talk about morality and doing the right thing, but your position can be summed up as "I don't care how Somalis live, or don't, so long as they leave us alone." That doesn't strike me as being...

Yeah, that must be why there are continual relief efforts being sent to Somalia--because everyone has enough money to survive on. Perhaps "most" people do work in Somalia--a 51% employment rate...

Pirates vs Indians? That didn't go so well for the Indians last time.


Yes, because as we all know, Somalia is the land of job opportunities.

Okay, I give up.

No. Your response addresses strategies. I'm asking about the moral imperative that is claimed to exist in some situations but not others.

Well... the strategy itself doesn't involve the use of violence, and it probably is one of the least violent (in terms of overall casualties) solutions proposed.

I think the only real stumbling...

Why is there a moral imperative to help the Libyan rebels and Ouattara's forces, but no moral imperative to help Somalia?

That might be relevant if I thought you were the only person to hold these two opinions.


No, no typo that I can see.

Yours was the name I noticed. I don't like calling out specific posters, generally, because it often leads to interpersonal headbutting that gets in the way of clearer exchanges. The invitation to...

Yes, well, cops who start gang wars to get what they want aren't cops, they're criminals with badges. I don't think I'm going to continue this discussion with you, carl; you're too involved with...

Er, a point I could have been clearer on: when I talk about US involvement in Somalia, I'm not talking about 2001; I'm talking about 2006 and Ethiopia.

There are a lot of problems with this. The first, I guess, is the pretty insulting idea that this is all about political correctness, as if it's just frippery that someone might see different sides...

What's there to say about it? They did it, it worked, hurray. I will point out that the Danes' action was carried out by guys who do this sort of thing for a living, which--from what I've gathered...

Yeah, freeing over half of a group of hostages without a shot fired and only one casualty (who was going to die anyway)--what were they thinking?