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I have to disagree that legitimacy must be the goal, because quite simply it simply isn't possible in some cases. However, you can't conduct population centric COIN without it, so what are the...

I can't agree that we weren't an occupying force just because our long term intent was to hand both Iraq and Afghanistan back over to their citizens. I also don't imply anything negative by being an...

I don't agree with his recommendations, it is the same ole standard line of we have to change conditions, and by definition we can't change conditions. I also agree with your off topic point. :D

Terrorism is theater and you don't create theater by throwing wooden shoes in into a factory's machinery. When you say hope for the best, I guess we all do that to varying degrees. We build a...

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/blood-in-shallow-waters

Blood in Shallow Waters





Carl, the author of this paper may agree with you, since according to his research there is little...

Carl, your arguments are overly simplistic and while I understand not wanting to give credit to our adversaries, to pretend or deny they don't have a strategy and seek to understand it puts us at a...

"If you intended to say AQ pulled off 9-11 because they knew it would result in a thoroughly mishandled 13 year effort in Afghanistan then you are just wrong. Nobody is that smart and nobody could...

Which is why I wrote perceived.

The Curmudgeon



If you're saying we must impose democracy to achieve legitimacy I disagree with what I have seen and learned to date. In the Ukraine Russia didn't upset the apple cart too much,...

This isn't completely accurate, if we overthrew an existing government and occupied that nation-state we are in fact and by law the defacto military government. If insurgents challenge us then we're...

TheCurmudgeon



I think the relevant quotes actually paint a somewhat different picture.



Tank warfare, lawfare, terrorism, insurgency, unconventional warfare, info warfare, and many...

Carl

You interpreted my intent correctly. Al-Qaeda leadership is not amoral, and doesn't engage in killing just for the sake of killing. To state that they do is about as simplistic as it gets,...

Carl, Al Qaeda's strategic comments are well known by those who study them (they're not classified), and unlike us they did have a strategy. Killing a lot of people had a purpose.

Unwinnable? ...

We had this discussion earlier and I'm thinking along the lines of this post.

http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/showpost.php?p=147622&postcount=9

Key excerpts:

COIN is neither a concept...

I didn't say we shouldn't target, as you pointed out targeting is critical to achieving our strategic objectives, but only if it is done within a strategic context. Al-Qaeda's 9/11 attack on the WTC...

Slapout, every time we used targeting as a strategy we ultimately failed. Targeting is nothing more and nothing less and nothing more than one of several contributing ways to achieve our strategic...

We were typing at the same time apparently, so I needlessly duplicated your answer. I'm in line with your reasoning as you can see.

These are great points, and no doubt we view war and warfare through a Western lens and that implies a high degree of bias (whether we're aware of it or not). Mike provided a legal definition, but in...

Humanitarian interventions are tied to political goals/policy, more so when military forces are employed to conduct them, or quite simply we wouldn't be intervening as a nation. There were underlying...

Mike, my first cut at the items in bold. I actually appreciate you prompting me to go back to the article and think about further. Bill

2. The merit in COIN cannot sensibly be posed as a general...

Mike,

Not sure what happened to the original link I provided, but this one is working:

http://indianstrategicknowledgeonline.com/web/ci%20prism17-32_gray.pdf

Which statements did you find to...

JMM99, thanks for posting a very relevant article.

Newguy, agreed, but there is doctrine and there is practice and often they don't meet in the middle. You can do a quick Google search for COIN...

Seriously, if our goal was to deny safe haven, and stabilize Pakistan (a related regional goal) because they're a nuclear weapons state, our ways and means certainly worked contrary to our ends....

Carl,

Getting to this kind of late, so initial response will be short, but I think Colin Gray captured why our efforts are floundering and it because our senior leadership is too focused on an...

A lot of the antibodies against COIN and our incredibly lame COIN doctrine is due to the illogic of those who promoted it, which was little more than a thin guise for promoting themselves. People...