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I think it's a good idea to leave this discussion after some final remarks.


I hinted at how it's difficult to express the opinion here. Maybe I found a way that's not going to yield a ban.

...

Stan; the E2 thing was only one in several attempts to fix the issue that should be a non-issue. NIH products have been available for decades.



First; it's not necessary to justify...

There are other armies with NCOs of decades experience with the not at all new item - and those NCOs are laughing at your approach of attempting to address a 90 y.o. design fault through training...

I have several arguments that don't seem to fit together in your opinion because the opposing positions differ and are all not up to the arguments imo.


The SAMs may be unmanned - even if they...

Hmm, personal background instead of argument?

Maybe I should tell you a tale about the great qualification of some Mr. Udet and some Mr. Göring in air war, both being aces and all - they still got...

Neither nor.

Gadaffi has lost enough territory for safely supplying all the major resistance centres by air, far away from the moderately ranged SAMs.

Similar point about the CAP; AMRAAM...

And none of them needs to fly into the engagement envelope of any Libyan air defence battery anyway. That's only an issue for strike fighters which engage heavy ground combat systems in order to...

Also let's keep in mind that many Arabs still think "Sudanese fertilizer factory" or "invasion of Iraq" when they hear "Tomahawk cruise missile".

This conflict was not meant to be business as...

Those air defences consist of electronic components. They have been out there, in the desert or half-desert, for decades. 20-6°C at day, down to freezing temperatures in the night. The reason why...

The SA-3 was tuned, the operators were competent, the pilot was careless, the F-117 is unable of kinematic evasion manoeuvres, the F-117 stealth concept was not really effective against the...

The Georgians used two different SAM systems, both of them originated in the mid-80's and were far ahead fo for example IHAWK, which is far ahead of the crap used by the Libyans.

The crap in the...

Georgia used SA-11 (Buk) to down Russian combat aircraft - that's a 1984 introduction system, far ahead of what Libya has. The Georgians furthermore did at least some training - not exactly what the...

Really? Then why are they flying at all?
Even the launch of a cruise missile from a ship entails some risk. Think of circle-running torpedoes...

I disagree. The DEAD (destruction enemy air defences) phase has become a custom, it was no necessity. Most of those air defence missiles are 1960's vintage, they could probably not even kill civilian...

The UNSC resolution permits the use of force for the protection of civilians and the enforcement of the NFZ. It did not turn the whole of the Libyan military into legitimate targets, or Libyas...

I doubt that they have domestic motives. Their pro-intervention driver was their minister of foreign affairs. He pushed Sarkozy into war.
Muslims in Europe is as a topic vastly misunderstood by many...

A German reporter team from Benghazi attributed the damage done to the attackers (some of them were already in the city) to the French, and more importantly; the people of Benghazi seem to do the...

Officers don't decide about war or peace, or about the mission of the military as a whole.
Officers don't decide on military budgets either.

...this begs the question whether this is still "protecting the civilian population" or something bigger, beyond the UNSC resolution. It reminds me of what once was begun with a simple resolution for...

Sounds like strategical incompetence and pre-programmed mission creep to me.

I mentioned the Afrikakorps. That one began as a local barrier division ("Sperrverband" ~ "barrier formation") for the...

As a German I am irritated by the similarities between the current Libyan case and the Spanish Civil War and Afrika Korps episodes.

Short of a loyalist morale breakdown I don't see the rebels...

This is more than just a little stretch. There's no obligation to intervene, the U.S. is on a different continent, it has no close relations to the people of Libya.

An intervention is an option,...

I don't get what you mean. Do you suggest to reduce the loyalist morale with graphic displays?

There's nothing channelling on the terrain. Where should the mines be laid? Almost all vehicles can quite easily travel off-road, especially the military ones. No mountains or hills, thus no narrow...

A few thousand Black African mercenaries are cheap. The possession of oil export facilities is rather of symbolic importance in this conflict imo.

Logistics (and thus organisation), competence and...