Refugees, Migrants and helping (Merged Thread)

[Tom Odom]

Do they keep people as refugees? Sure they do - the entire system is structured that way and they don't have the power to change it even though I know some of their senior bureaucrats at least want to.

Agree fully. That was the source of the great frustration in the Congo with the camps. Funny that the UNHCR folks inside Rwanda supported closing the IDP camps inside the country--they were not "refugees" so the UNHCR charterv did not apply. UNREO however was against forced closure along with key NGOs MSF inside Rwanda. MSF in Goma support closing the camps in Zaire (Congo). All of this cause gridlock until the new Rwandan government said enough--along with the Tanzanians.

What is needed is a clause in their charter which says that when a refugee camp becomes a political and then military entity it is then subject to other measures. Of course the big problem in Goma was the proximity of the camps to Rwanda in the first place. Their placement was a factor of the exhausted and dying refugees stopping and refusing to move; later attempts to move them ran into oppostion from the hardliners controlling the camps as well as from Mobutu who of course supported the hardliners.

Best

Tom

[George L. Singleton]

Tom:

Appreciate your UN rules change ideas as in Africa.

QUESTION: Do you know proximity or lack of proximity of the "in general" Afghan refugees in Pakistan since the Afghan-USSR war? While many have gone back to Afghanistan there are still several thousand, I think, still in Pakistan, having had a few more generations of youngsters in the meanwhile inside the camps so to speak.

Thanks.

[davidbfpo]

George,

I will rely on others to be experts, but I do recall late 2007 Iran announced it was time that Afghan refugees went home and the figures were hundreds of thousands. Coercion was in prospect. I also know that anecdote suggests some of these Afghans are now trying to flee to Europe and claim to be escaping from the Taliban.

davidbfpo

[George L. Singleton]

David:

Thanks much for your input.

Here is some info I found on the Internet about both Pakistan and Iranian Afghan refugee camps. I think this source is from the UN.

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?ReportId=70450

It would be helpful if Iran, which is majority Shiia, would in some pecuniary way help with the cost of reconstruction and other needs today of and inside Afghanistan.

If Tom has some additional insight or info I would be glad to know of that, too. I am very interested in Tom's idea of changed guidance for UN refugee camps worldwide. Proactively that makes very good sense.

Just had an e-mail from John McCain saying his staff are in receipt of and will work with the Voice of America ideas I've been pushing which you have already seen, MOAA article and CBS TV-42 clip. Every bit of help from my perspective is of benefit to our boys and girls on the ground there, as VOA can and should lead to more illiterate population goodwill, that is my hope, anyhow.

George

[Rex Brynen]

It would be helpful if Iran, which is majority Shiia, would in some pecuniary way help with the cost of reconstruction and other needs today of and inside Afghanistan.

Actually, Iran is a fairly substantial aid donor to Afghanistan, having pledged and disbursed some $570 million in 2002-2006, and another $100 million plus for 2007.

The US is providing roughly $1 billion per year in (non-military) aid, and about $4 billion per year in security assistance to Afghanistan. This, of course, excludes direct US military costs.

Given that the US economy is almost 50 times larger than that of Iran (GDP $13.8 trillion vs $278 billion), Tehran's contribution is actually quite generous--indeed, likely a larger proportion of GDP than most NATO countries are contributing.

(And yes, I realize that had nothing at all to do with UNHCR!)

[George L. Singleton]

Many thanks to Rex our Montreal, Canada fellow Council Member, for his interpolated fiscal info regarding the value [interpolated] of Iran's contributions to help with Afghan related issues.

I agree with the fact [Rex makes] that Iran is doing anything at all is good news, fiscally speaking.

However, I disagree as to the literal vs. interpolated dollar value of Iran's involvement. Being a theocratic [Islamic] nation Iran has a Muslim duty to do much more in dollar value of assistance to Afghanistan and it's refugees formerly and still inside Iran, in my opinion nothing to do with interpolated dollar values.

But, I have learned from our Canadian friend's observations and in no way mean to be discourteous.

ASIDE: The late Canadian Brigadier General Denis [Denny] Whitkaker [Toronto area] was my late first cousin, Jim Singleton's, father in law. Have you, Rex, read any or all of Denis Whitaker's six books on his experiences in WW II? As you know, Whitaker as a Captain, Canadian Army was involved in and managed to somehow escape from the fiasco at Dieppe on the French coast in 1942.

Here are B/G Whitaker's six books in case any other SWJ followers may be unaware of or interested in reading all or some of them:

- Normandy: The Real Story of How Ordinary Allied Soldiers Defeated Hitler by Denis Whitaker, Shelagh Whitaker, and Terry Copp

-Victory at Falaise: The Soldier's Story by Denis Whitaker and Shelagh Whitaker with Terry Copp

- Tug of War: The Allied Victory That Opened Antwerp by Denis Whitaker and Shelagh Whitaker

- Dieppe: Tragedy to Triumph by Denis Whitaker and Shelagh Whitaker

- Rhineland: The Battle to End the War by Denis Whitaker and Shelagh Whitaker

- The Battle of the Scheldt by Denis Whitaker

[Tom Odom]

Tom:

Appreciate your UN rules change ideas as in Africa.

QUESTION: Do you know proximity or lack of proximity of the "in general" Afghan refugees in Pakistan since the Afghan-USSR war? While many have gone back to Afghanistan there are still several thousand, I think, still in Pakistan, having had a few more generations of youngsters in the meanwhile inside the camps so to speak.

Thanks.

George

Good report on that subject from HRW, one of the better human rights NGOs

CLOSED DOOR POLICY:
Afghan Refugees in Pakistan and Iran

Welcome

Tom

[George L. Singleton]

George

Good report on that subject from HRW, one of the better human rights NGOs

CLOSED DOOR POLICY:
Afghan Refugees in Pakistan and Iran

Welcome

Tom

Tom:

This very detailed Human Rights Watch link/posting is very much appreciated.

George