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Thread: South Africa (catch all)

  1. #1
    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
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    Default South Africa (catch all)

    Moderator's Note

    Three threads devoted to South Africa have today been merged and the thread renamed (ends).


    BBC reports that the former leader of the far-right AWB Eugene Terreblanche, was found dead after a dispute with workers over unpaid wages on his farm.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8602347.stm
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 10-29-2013 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Add Mod's note

  2. #2
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    I think that's unrelated to military affairs and small wars.

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    An ill-fated military intervention into the Bophuthatswana homeland in 1994 ended with three AWB men being killed in front of TV cameras in a PR disaster that diminished further the seriousness with which Mr Terreblanche's movement was taken.
    Nope. It's absolutely related, and can stay.

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Small storm, not a Small War

    The BBC's latest comment:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8602512.stm

    South African President Jacob Zuma has called for calm after white supremacist leader Eugene Terreblanche was killed. Mr Zuma told the nation he was shocked by the news and urged unity. He sent condolences to the Terreblanche family. Police have arrested two farm workers who they say beat Mr Terreblanche to death in a dispute over wages. Mr Terreblanche's far-right movement is urging its members to be calm. It says his murder has political overtones, a claim the governing ANC rejects.
    A wider BBC obituary:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3797797.stmwhich ends with this:
    ...he was still as much a master of the grand gesture as he had been throughout his ineffectual political career.
    There maybe angry Afrikaner farmers and some sympathy amongst the fringes of the now inactive political right, but is this a "spark" for trouble? I doubt it, partly due to the long history of the political right, their inability to make inroads amongst the mainly urban white population and revenge aside what do they offer.

    The government would be wiser to look again at the number of farmers being murdered, although I'm not sure if the murders continue at the pace of a few years ago. Long time since I have looked at these issues in depth.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Cooling down

    After the murder there clearly are those who wish to cool down the situation, see this BBC report:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8603706.stm

    The party of murdered South African white supremacist Eugene Terreblanche has withdrawn a threat to take revenge for his death....Visits to the Terreblanche farm by senior ANC figures...
    Note the two suspects for the murder remained at the scene and were arrested. Hardly, no maybe not the actions of persons radicalised by hatred and those in the ANC who have strong views on white farmers.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default A man who thinks Mugabe can teach South Africa

    A dour, pessimistic article on Julius Malema, an ANC "youth" leader, who has just been in Zimbabwe visiting President Mugabe:
    If you ask me, Malema is the point-man for a powerful ANC faction whose motive is greed and whose chosen weapon is racial demagoguery of the most primitive kind.

    The trouble is that this card trumps all others. Our underclass is huge, poorly educated and desperately poor. They know what happened in Zimbabwe, but even so, the prospect of loot is irresistible, and that's Malema's bait. Mandela gave them free houses. Mbeki gave them welfare grants, leading to a situation where five million taxpayers support 13 million indigents, with the total rising far more rapidly than our ability to pay. Now Malema and the faceless vultures behind him are offering them the rest. They are playing the death card, the Ace of Spades.
    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eath-card.html
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Some of the saddest people I ever met were white South Africans with children. They are fearful, almost terrified, of what is coming and are desperate to get their children out, but mostly can't.

    There is comment attached to the story about Julius Malema saying that the difference between Zim and South Africa is the white South Africans have no place to go. If that continues to be true, who knows what will happen.

    We used to tell each other the critical point will be when Mandela dies. I guess we'll see.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Temperature rises - watch & wait

    The other day there was a report:
    South African police have foiled an attempt by right-wing extremists to bomb black townships ahead of the World Cup, according to the co[/URL]untry's police minister.
    Link:[URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africaandindianocean/southafrica/7686944/South-African-police-foil-extremist-attempt-to-bomb-black-townships.html"]

    Today this:
    Dozens of people have been injured in South Africa's coastal city of Durban on Sunday after an explosion in a train carriage, police said.
    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...explosion.html

    Waiting for developments and hoping the two are stories are not linked.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    The other day there was a report:

    Link:[URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africaandindianocean/southafrica/7686944/South-African-police-foil-extremist-attempt-to-bomb-black-townships.html"]

    Today this:

    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...explosion.html

    Waiting for developments and hoping the two are stories are not linked.
    Let's hope so,

    However from what I take it, the South African far-right has been fairly inactive and quiet about things even after ET's death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin23 View Post
    Let's hope so,

    However from what I take it, the South African far-right has been fairly inactive and quiet about things even after ET's death.
    The soccer (football) World Cup starts in South Africa in a month or so. There is a real concern that some hothead will do something at one of the games that will start a chain reaction that will have far reaching effects for the nation.

    Let me tell you its a worry out here.

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    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    The soccer (football) World Cup starts in South Africa in a month or so. There is a real concern that some hothead will do something at one of the games that will start a chain reaction that will have far reaching effects for the nation.

    Let me tell you its a worry out here.
    Of course it hasn't only been groups from within South Africa to worry about, Al-Qaeda has threatened to make an attempt on the games a couple of times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    The soccer (football) World Cup starts in South Africa in a month or so. There is a real concern that some hothead will do something at one of the games that will start a chain reaction that will have far reaching effects for the nation. Let me tell you its a worry out here.
    Funny you should say that...

    The State Department has issued a travel alert warning U.S. citizens in South Africa to be aware of increased terrorism risks during the World Cup, which starts June 11.

    "Large scale public events like the World Cup may present a wide range of attractive targets for terrorists," the alert said.
    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/28...-south-africa/

    See also

    CAPE TOWN South African soldiers will be on high alert during the football World Cup, the army boss said Thursday, as the government voiced concern about violent protests during the tournament.

    The military will also begin patrolling the national borders on April 1, taking over the duty from police as part of a broader security realignment meant to allow police to focus on fighting crime, Lieutenant General Solly Shoke said.
    http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/2010032...0-4bdc673.html
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Some interesting cultural intel.

    A weekend newspaper report, vehemently denied by the South African government, of an "80 percent chance" of a terrorist attack during the June 11-July 11 soccer spectacular suggests her confidence is not universally shared.

    But in Africa, where mysticism and magic play a part in many people's lives, pronouncements from a 'sangoma' such as Nsukwini can carry as much weight as those from governments, especially when it comes to the murky world of security agencies.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...rpc=22&sp=true

    Related

    (Reuters) - South African security officials on Sunday denied claims in a Sunday newspaper that the country faces a high risk of a terrorist attack during the World Cup it is hosting in less than two weeks.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64T1WL20100530
    Last edited by AdamG; 06-03-2010 at 02:43 PM.
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    PRETORIA - Four South Africans were arrested in the capital Pretoria for trying to sell a low-radiation industrial nuclear device, police said Saturday, insisting the incident had no link the World Cup.
    http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...=international
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Default SANDF Combat Readiness - Some grave concerns

    A raw Op-Ed on the state of some South African units.
    http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...nce&Itemid=112

    The author has served in various positions with the SANDF for 24 years
    http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/peter-dovey-24751
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    Default 13 South African soldiers killed in CAR

    In what is clearly a terrible mess, with yet another violent coup d'etat in the Central African Republic (CAR), with a small SANDF training mission being attacked for nine hours:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21923624

    ...officials are now hard-pressed to explain the role the South African soldiers were expected to play in the event of an attack.

    There are still many unanswered questions but some have accused the government of poor judgement, saying the incident has not only caused embarrassment for the army, but for South Africa as a key player in peace missions in Africa.
    No reports that the French contingent had such problems.
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member Morgan's Avatar
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    13 KIA is bad but it could've been worse. I couldn't open the defenseweb link by AdamG but I think it might be the article I read last summer written by a former SADF officer about the current state of junior officer training in SANDF........new LTs not understanding basic field order preparation, minimal understanding of C2 via radio, etc.....

    If that is what caused, or played a part in, the recent deaths, then yes, SANDF in CAR has a combat readiness problem. But if it had more to with their ROE or poorly defined mission, then I'd look to their national leadership decision-making skills VS SANDF readiness. Any stories on what contributed to the KIAs?

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    Found this after quick google search:

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/201...a-in-spotlight

    From the sounds of the news article, they were a fairly light force that got engaged by a much larger force. They claim 500 enemy casualties. The fighting apparently lasted 9 hours. So, I would say that it's probably more ROE/Mission/Force Structure related than soldier training or readiness- at least if the news report is any indication.

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    A counter point of view, despite it apparently lasted for hours and cusualties were high in the seleka ranks
    SANDF: CAR rebels regretted killing of SA soldiers
    Suicide mission
    The Beeld reported on Tuesday that beyond the official toll of those injured, killed and missing, six special forces operators were also killed in the fighting.

    The newspaper reported that the SANDF had become a target for reportedly helping Central African Republic (CAR) President Francois Boziz flee the country into the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

    According to the report, top structures were warned by senior SANDF officers last week that the CAR mission amounted to "suicide".

    South African Air Force aircraft were also put on standby on Monday night, though due to financial constraints the Gripens were not armed with weapons with an attack capacity.

    SANDF soldiers reportedly struggled on the ground due to lack of logistics and air support.

    Soldiers had to ask French parachutists for essential equipment, with only one doctor present with a backpack for medical support.
    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-03-26-s...of-sa-soldiers

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    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    If you follow Ken Wats link and then go to the editorial you find the Opposition in South Africa are making serious allegations, I cite the last paragraph - with my emphasis:
    As Democratic Alliance defence spokesman David Maynier said on Monday, the nature of the battle calls into question whether the president misled Parliament when he informed members of the joint standing committee on defence that the SANDF was being deployed in CAR to help with "capacity building". It now seems they were deployed to defend particular economic interests near the capital on behalf of a corrupt, authoritarian and unpopular government. The only thing to do now is to withdraw a force that probably should not have been deployed in the first place.
    Link:http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/edit...ould-leave-car

    One wonders what the French think? Who I am sure are at the main airport, as is their practice.

    All looks very messy for RSA. My perceptions were not helped by the SANDF general interviewed on BBC Radio 4 terminating the interview when the questions got tough.
    davidbfpo

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