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  1. #1
    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
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    Default South Africa (catch all)

    Moderator's Note

    Three threads devoted to South Africa have today been merged and the thread renamed (ends).


    BBC reports that the former leader of the far-right AWB Eugene Terreblanche, was found dead after a dispute with workers over unpaid wages on his farm.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8602347.stm
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 10-29-2013 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Add Mod's note

  2. #2
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    I think that's unrelated to military affairs and small wars.

  3. #3
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    An ill-fated military intervention into the Bophuthatswana homeland in 1994 ended with three AWB men being killed in front of TV cameras in a PR disaster that diminished further the seriousness with which Mr Terreblanche's movement was taken.
    Nope. It's absolutely related, and can stay.

  4. #4
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Small storm, not a Small War

    The BBC's latest comment:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8602512.stm

    South African President Jacob Zuma has called for calm after white supremacist leader Eugene Terreblanche was killed. Mr Zuma told the nation he was shocked by the news and urged unity. He sent condolences to the Terreblanche family. Police have arrested two farm workers who they say beat Mr Terreblanche to death in a dispute over wages. Mr Terreblanche's far-right movement is urging its members to be calm. It says his murder has political overtones, a claim the governing ANC rejects.
    A wider BBC obituary:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3797797.stmwhich ends with this:
    ...he was still as much a master of the grand gesture as he had been throughout his ineffectual political career.
    There maybe angry Afrikaner farmers and some sympathy amongst the fringes of the now inactive political right, but is this a "spark" for trouble? I doubt it, partly due to the long history of the political right, their inability to make inroads amongst the mainly urban white population and revenge aside what do they offer.

    The government would be wiser to look again at the number of farmers being murdered, although I'm not sure if the murders continue at the pace of a few years ago. Long time since I have looked at these issues in depth.
    davidbfpo

  5. #5
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Cooling down

    After the murder there clearly are those who wish to cool down the situation, see this BBC report:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8603706.stm

    The party of murdered South African white supremacist Eugene Terreblanche has withdrawn a threat to take revenge for his death....Visits to the Terreblanche farm by senior ANC figures...
    Note the two suspects for the murder remained at the scene and were arrested. Hardly, no maybe not the actions of persons radicalised by hatred and those in the ANC who have strong views on white farmers.
    davidbfpo

  6. #6
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default A man who thinks Mugabe can teach South Africa

    A dour, pessimistic article on Julius Malema, an ANC "youth" leader, who has just been in Zimbabwe visiting President Mugabe:
    If you ask me, Malema is the point-man for a powerful ANC faction whose motive is greed and whose chosen weapon is racial demagoguery of the most primitive kind.

    The trouble is that this card trumps all others. Our underclass is huge, poorly educated and desperately poor. They know what happened in Zimbabwe, but even so, the prospect of loot is irresistible, and that's Malema's bait. Mandela gave them free houses. Mbeki gave them welfare grants, leading to a situation where five million taxpayers support 13 million indigents, with the total rising far more rapidly than our ability to pay. Now Malema and the faceless vultures behind him are offering them the rest. They are playing the death card, the Ace of Spades.
    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eath-card.html
    davidbfpo

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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Some interesting cultural intel.

    A weekend newspaper report, vehemently denied by the South African government, of an "80 percent chance" of a terrorist attack during the June 11-July 11 soccer spectacular suggests her confidence is not universally shared.

    But in Africa, where mysticism and magic play a part in many people's lives, pronouncements from a 'sangoma' such as Nsukwini can carry as much weight as those from governments, especially when it comes to the murky world of security agencies.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...rpc=22&sp=true

    Related

    (Reuters) - South African security officials on Sunday denied claims in a Sunday newspaper that the country faces a high risk of a terrorist attack during the World Cup it is hosting in less than two weeks.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64T1WL20100530
    Last edited by AdamG; 06-03-2010 at 02:43 PM.
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    PRETORIA - Four South Africans were arrested in the capital Pretoria for trying to sell a low-radiation industrial nuclear device, police said Saturday, insisting the incident had no link the World Cup.
    http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...=international
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Default SANDF Combat Readiness - Some grave concerns

    A raw Op-Ed on the state of some South African units.
    http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...nce&Itemid=112

    The author has served in various positions with the SANDF for 24 years
    http://www.whoswhosa.co.za/peter-dovey-24751
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
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  10. #10
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default 13 South African soldiers killed in CAR

    In what is clearly a terrible mess, with yet another violent coup d'etat in the Central African Republic (CAR), with a small SANDF training mission being attacked for nine hours:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21923624

    ...officials are now hard-pressed to explain the role the South African soldiers were expected to play in the event of an attack.

    There are still many unanswered questions but some have accused the government of poor judgement, saying the incident has not only caused embarrassment for the army, but for South Africa as a key player in peace missions in Africa.
    No reports that the French contingent had such problems.
    davidbfpo

  11. #11
    Council Member Morgan's Avatar
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    13 KIA is bad but it could've been worse. I couldn't open the defenseweb link by AdamG but I think it might be the article I read last summer written by a former SADF officer about the current state of junior officer training in SANDF........new LTs not understanding basic field order preparation, minimal understanding of C2 via radio, etc.....

    If that is what caused, or played a part in, the recent deaths, then yes, SANDF in CAR has a combat readiness problem. But if it had more to with their ROE or poorly defined mission, then I'd look to their national leadership decision-making skills VS SANDF readiness. Any stories on what contributed to the KIAs?

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    Found this after quick google search:

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/201...a-in-spotlight

    From the sounds of the news article, they were a fairly light force that got engaged by a much larger force. They claim 500 enemy casualties. The fighting apparently lasted 9 hours. So, I would say that it's probably more ROE/Mission/Force Structure related than soldier training or readiness- at least if the news report is any indication.

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    A counter point of view, despite it apparently lasted for hours and cusualties were high in the seleka ranks
    SANDF: CAR rebels regretted killing of SA soldiers
    Suicide mission
    The Beeld reported on Tuesday that beyond the official toll of those injured, killed and missing, six special forces operators were also killed in the fighting.

    The newspaper reported that the SANDF had become a target for reportedly helping Central African Republic (CAR) President Francois Boziz flee the country into the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

    According to the report, top structures were warned by senior SANDF officers last week that the CAR mission amounted to "suicide".

    South African Air Force aircraft were also put on standby on Monday night, though due to financial constraints the Gripens were not armed with weapons with an attack capacity.

    SANDF soldiers reportedly struggled on the ground due to lack of logistics and air support.

    Soldiers had to ask French parachutists for essential equipment, with only one doctor present with a backpack for medical support.
    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-03-26-s...of-sa-soldiers

  14. #14
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default AQ training in South Africa?

    A very odd South African report, alleging AQ had training facilities in South Africa, which became untouchable and a surveillance operation was closed:
    The police’s specialised unit, Crimes Against the State (CATS) and the State Security Agency (SSA) have been monitoring the training of al-Qaeda terrorists in South Africa for several years, without taking any action. A year-long investigation by the Daily Maverick’s DE WET POTGIETER has revealed surprising inaction by police despite incriminating evidence about secret military training camps and sophisticated sniper training at three well-documented locations as well as several others across South Africa. These subversive activities have taken place at a farm near the notorious Apartheid police hit squad camp at Vlakplaas outside Pretoria, as well as a secluded farm in the mountains of the Klein Karoo.
    Link:http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/artic...-south-africa/

    Those accused have exercised the 'right of reply':http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/artic...krat-responds/

    Just how South Africa works is a moot point, likewise some of the allegations made. The next one I'd not seen before:
    The fugitive ‘white widow’ of a 7/7 London bomber was a key link between Al Qaeda terrorists in Pakistan and their fighters in East Africa, it has emerged. Muslim convert Samantha Lewthwaite, who was married to Kings Cross bomber Germaine Lindsay, spent two years working for the deadly extremist organisation in South Africa using a false name.
    Link:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...me%5Eheadlines

    All quite puzzling, as I am sure the USSS are - President Obama has a trip soon to South Africa.

    (Added) Found an update on the political reaction from a more well-known, South African defence periodical:http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...d=74&Itemid=30
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 05-21-2013 at 07:59 PM.
    davidbfpo

  15. #15
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default What does this say: Fake interpreter at Mandela memorial?

    Sadly the media have reported 'Fake interpreter at (Mandela) memorial 'made up his own signs' say South Africa's deaf federation. Film clip and short story:http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-...his-own-signs/

    One hopes the SA government will sack all those involved in the use of the fake interpreter.

    I watched some of the memorial service on the BBC. When President Zuma and ex-president George Bush arrived in the stadium they were booed. Today it is reported SABC cut the booing of President Zuma out. Hidden away elsewhere President Robert Mugabe and President Obama are reported as being loudly cheered.
    davidbfpo

  16. #16
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    One hopes the SA government will sack all those involved in the use of the fake interpreter.
    I'll bet the interpreter is related to somebody.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    Hidden away elsewhere President Robert Mugabe and President Obama are reported as being loudly cheered.
    God save the RSA. Nothing else will.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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    Carl,

    You have a good understanding of how Africa works...

    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    I'll bet the interpreter is related to somebody.

    God save the RSA. Nothing else will.

  18. #18
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default It's not the first time the fake has appeared

    ITN has found some previous footage:
    The footage, apparently filmed in January 2012 at the ANC party's 100th anniversary, shows the man making gestures as Zuma sings to the crowd.

    ANC communications manager Keith Khoza told NBC News that the interpreter had translated for party events in the past, but said that the man only “volunteered” and was not paid.
    Link:http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-1...ealed-as-fake/
    davidbfpo

  19. #19
    Council Member carl's Avatar
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    David:

    Further down in that string of ITV reports, various RSA gov authorities 'claim' they don't know who that guy was. I guess he just shows up.

    The US Secret Service is going to love hearing that.
    "We fight, get beat, rise, and fight again." Gen. Nathanael Greene

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