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Thread: Courageous Restraint "Hold fire, earn a medal"

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  1. #1
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VMI_Marine View Post
    One of my Marines received a Navy Comm with V for pulling an Iraqi family out of the line of fire in 2003 (I take no credit for the writeup, he was in another battalion at the time of the action).
    Courage above that shown by others. I think this one is easy. In the UK he might have got the George Cross.
    ...but leaders need to understand, appreciate, and recognize when their Soldiers or Marines go above and beyond the call by showing judgment and restraint.
    OK, but don't you get paid to exercise restraint and judgement. When is there an option ever not to do it?
    There isn't a minimum standard. You are either doing it or not. Restraint actually means doing nothing, and ROE exist to ensure that violence is used instrumentally and in line with policy.
    Wouldn't you say that "Good judgement" is either there or not?
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    Restraint actually means doing nothing, and ROE exist to ensure that violence is used instrumentally and in line with policy.
    Wouldn't you say that "Good judgement" is either there or not?
    I have comments on this issue already, so I hope it's clear that I think such an award is stupid. That said, restraint in the context of this issue is not necessarily "doing nothing." Doing nothing is what you do on a FOB.

    If de-escalation occurs as a measured risk that you choose to take, in order to obtain an outsized reward, in the form of an outcome that can do more to advance the mission, then you are not "doing nothing." I think that is what is trying to be encouraged. Unfortunately, a bunch of senior leaders apparently think that issuing awards is the path to that objective, rather than the tired old method some of us once knew as "leadership."

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    IMHO it would take a brave man to wear such a medal.

    Lets be honest, there is a macho thing that would make someone like that an outcast.

    2 short anecdotes come to mind.

    1) The week before my unit went into iraq in Desrt Storm my platoon did a mock attack on an abandoned Saudi Border post. As we were approaching the door opened and a bootless scarecrow came up with his hands up... never has a platoon locked and loaded so fast... never has an LT run forward and stopped 40 men doing something silly so fast... 5 months of sand made everyone prety eager to get a shot in.... The LT was seen as a Wus.

    2) When an operation in Africa finished so fast almost noone got to fire a shot... the devil makes work for idle hands... all over the town we were in guys were hatching plots on how they could instigate a fight

    3) Once in Sarajevo 2 of our APCs were fired on from an apartment block. The 20mm AA Gunner was told by his sgt to fire at the building... he refused as there were probably/possibly women and kids in it. (I am not even sure the sgt was authorised to give the order). Was only light weapons fire anyway, just bounced off. The gunner became a pariah, not for disobeying orders or anything, simply because he gave up a chance to shoot in a city where everyone was hoping and praying that today would be their day to shoot.

    Yup... with age and hindsight the LT did the right thing (was an iraqi deserter who had spend 3 days walking to get there, the guys looking to start a firefight were wrong, and the gunner did the right thing.....

    back when I was 23 I saw it very different... yup indeed.....

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    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seabee View Post
    IMHO it would take a brave man to wear such a medal.

    Lets be honest, there is a macho thing that would make someone like that an outcast......
    So maybe it is more about the actual conversation that about the medal. Lets hope that the conversation educates people enough to avoid this sort of silliness from being as common place in the future as it was in the past. How else so we cut through the macho crap?
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    ONWARD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwigrunt View Post
    How else so we cut through the macho crap?

    Its difficult.... I can discuss it rationally now.... but make me 19 again, give me a gun, grenades and an attitude... and a section of other young guys all trying to prove they are harder than the next guy..... and its a different ball game.

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    Default Change in Metrics of success

    COIN has changed how we define success on the "battelfield" yet the award system (and by extension the promotion system) has not changed. In Khost Province last year we had a CSM flying out to Sabari District to measure sideburns (!!). This was a "combat tested" CSM.

    On the enlisted level, the NCO ranks still does not get leadership credit for MiTT or ETT (SQD LRD/PLT SGT/1SG).

    Success needs to be rewarded. If not, then COIN knowledge will be lost just like it was lost after Vietnam (late '70s/80/90)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger94 View Post
    COIN has changed how we define success on the "battelfield" yet the award system (and by extension the promotion system) has not changed.
    Are you suggesting that it should? If so, why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger94 View Post
    In Khost Province last year we had a CSM flying out to Sabari District to measure sideburns (!!). This was a "combat tested" CSM.
    Welcome to the Army.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger94 View Post
    Success needs to be rewarded. If not, then COIN knowledge will be lost just like it was lost after Vietnam (late '70s/80/90)
    Is the suggestion here that awards are the only reward? Or the most preferable award? Something else? We generally reward success with evaluations reports, promotions, and desirable duty positions and stations. Even if we get rewards right, knowledge can still be lost.

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