Roadside Bombs & IEDs (catch all)

[Jedburgh]

If someone's got an older example, I'd like to push this date further back. Candidly, I'm frustrated and annoyed by the folks who talk as if IEDs are innovative and new.

No offense, Van, but I think you're just letting your frustration with simpletons set you off on a tangent. The tactic of one Navy sending flaming ships into their opponents certainly predates what you'll find in the historical record. The same goes for armies sending flaming carts into the wooden gates of fortresses. But both bear limited resemblence to the various permutations of the tactical use of IEDs today.

For educating the idiots who believe that the IED is a new innovation that arose post-9/11, I feel its best to keep rooted in relatively modern warfare. An easy example is simply to state how elements of various allied special operations units during WWII trained and advised partisan forces on the use of IEDs against the axis - both purely military and civil infrastructure targets. There is a tremendous amount of material from that period that is directly applicable to the COE. And, of course, during the Cold War there is a broad spectrum of conflicts to draw upon where IEDs of all types were used against a dazzling array of target sets.

(As an aside, its also usually surprising to some when they are informed that much of Hezbollah's skill in using roadside bombs was not gained from Iran, but from South Africa. For members of the ANC with a great depth of experience in IED tactics against the apartheid-era South African army, sharing that knowledge with Hezbollah was getting a little payback against Israel, which was heavily engaged in military collaboration with South Africa in the '70s & '80s.)

Dealing more specifically with VBIEDs, and just looking at post-WWII, the Stern Gang really was the first to use a VBIED - targeting a Brit police station in Haifa on 12 Jan 47. But despite occasional usage after that - including a few particularly nasty examples - VBIEDs didn't really gain traction among terrorists until March '72, when the PIRA initiated two ANFO VBIEDs in Belfast. From that point on, the history is pretty damn clear, and anyone who still believes that it is a unique development of the GWOT is an idiot, plain and simple.

Ultimately, I think you'd make your point better when you demonstrate what little understanding they have of relatively recent military history rather than catching them out on obscure historical examples.

....just another retiree's biased opinion...

[Umar Al-Mokhtār]

in Vietnam both during the French war and ours. A particularly effective use of bicycles was made since they were everywhere and very easily just left in a crowded bistro or market.

A subset of VBIEDs would be to classify those used expressly as a suicide vehicle and those not.

[Ken White]

in Vietnam both during the French war and ours. A particularly effective use of bicycles was made since they were everywhere and very easily just left in a crowded bistro or market.

A subset of VBIEDs would be to classify those used expressly as a suicide vehicle and those not.

Vespas not so much; the Viet Namese were a thrifty lot.

Grenades in the Baskets atop the heads of little old ladies probably don't count as VBIEDs. Particularly as the White Mice thought most were not aware of their added cargo.

Then there's the question on today's suicide variations; those with the driver strapped in and those where he or she is not...

[RJ]

As far as the oldest fire ship attack, I remember that a Roman Fleet was destroyed by fire ships and even Darius had a problem with the Greeks who attacked his vast armada with fire ships shortly after the Spartans were blocking a pass from the beach.

The IRA used bicycles to quickly move their tactical units from place to place. They referred to them as "Flying Columns"! Ah the Irish, always the ones with a flair for the enemys language.

Digging deep enough, I suppose that some young Irish bomb thrower could have used his bike to deliver a few Mills Grenades to British staff cars. I'm sure they thought of that delivery system and the English passed it on the the Marquis.

[davidbfpo]

The IRA used bicycles..... I'm sure they thought of that delivery system and the English passed it on the the Marquis.

RJ,

IIRC the IRA used bicycle bombs in a mainland UK campaign before 1939 and one went off in Coventry. THis is a summary: Nine days before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 August 1939, Coventry was the scene of an early mainland bicycle bomb attack by the IRA. At 2:30 in the afternoon, a bomb exploded inside the satchel of a tradesman's bicycle that had been left outside a shop on Broadgate. The explosion killed five people, injured 100 more and caused extensive damage to shops in the area. Five IRA members were put on trial for murder and two were hanged in February 1940, although the identity of the man who rode the bicycle to Broadgate and planted the bomb was never discovered. Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Coventry

Yes, we probably handed the tactic, via SOE, to the French and other resistance movements in WW2.

davidbfpo

[Umar Al-Mokhtār]

cried the distraught Viet Minh 'It's all the style we've got to pick up cute girls in áo dài down at the milk bar near by the Majestic...'

[Ken White]

No, not the Vespa cried the distraught Viet Minh 'It's all the style we've got to pick up cute girls in áo dài down at the milk bar near by the Majestic...'

Plus its use to haul fifteen stacked high and tottering crates of Chickens to market...