Roadside Bombs & IEDs (catch all)

[Rex Brynen]

Besides, why does more money go into Humanitarian Mine Action efforts in some places than into preventable disease?

Oh, I have no presumptions about the macro-rationality of donor assistance!

It does seem to me there are some aspects in which demining may have a certain "strategic" significance. Given the frequency with which transport routes, abandoned housing, economic infrastructure, etc. is mined, demining becomes essential for a range of related imperatives (refugee return, agricultural production, economic growth). Moreover, mines and UXO can be a major source of explosives, and so there is a military/counterterrorism implication here too.

None of which invalidates looking at IEDs as posing different sorts of challenges, as you propose to do.

[Jedburgh]

The Daily Item, 10 Jun 08: Swampscott PD to Speak to Students on Dangers of IEDs

In an effort to curb the rising number of incidents involving improvised explosive devices, the Swampscott Police Department and the Massachuessetts State Police Hazadrous Devices Unit will speak to students Wednesday at Swampscott Middle School about the dangers associated with making IEDs.

Several Middle School students have been involved in incidents involving IEDs in the last couple of years. The most recent was in May, when a student was disfigured when an IED he was making blew up.....

[Tom Odom]

The Daily Item, 10 Jun 08: Swampscott PD to Speak to Students on Dangers of IEDs

We use to make "IEDs" when I was a kid with gunpowder from dud firecrackers and other fireworks. Of course M-80s wrapped together with a single fuse were just dandy.

And my older cousins in Oklahoma were all in the Nat Guard and used to bring home hand grenade and artillery simulators as well as .30 cal blanks that were great in my 03 Springfield--much better than going bang bang when you played army.

I remember Mom coming out rather indignant when Dad was trying to get a nap one afternoon at the family homestead in east Texas, "Tommy do you have to throw those bombs while your father is trying to sleep!?!"

Tom

[selil]

In high school metal shop I made a completely accurate 1/8th scale Army Cannon based on blue prints I found from the 1870s. My instructor was none to happy when he found out that it was fully functional. In wood shop I made the cart for it. It'd shoot a tennis ball a long freaking ways. Or not very far at all if you loaded to much smokeless behind it. Estes rocket motor igniters are how we fired it off.

[Jedburgh]

I grew up in an area right next to a RR switching yard. We'd often hang out there and just slap various stuff together to see what kind of bang or flame it would make. There were some really good ones, along with a few dud experiments....

Some kids just don't have any sense, though, and go beyond the normal boyhood exuberance in doing the pipe bomb thing - and with black powder it always seems to go wrong when screwing down the metal end-caps. I have a picture somewhere of a high school kid who was doing exactly that in his garage (for a school science project - approved by the teacher!) and blew himself across the hood of dad's car. That was a few years ago - but it was only three months ago that a Mom in Oklahoma was charged with "explosives manufacturing" for buying her teenage son supplies to build pipe bombs.

[Stan]

Among my current favorites are Polish made M40s (approx. 1/4 stick of TNT equivalent) and the good old days of mixing powdered aluminum, salt peter and sugar.

Sam, sounds like a sweet canon ! Portions of my misspent youth in DC was making tennis ball canons outta real coke cans, mucho duct tape, and a little bit of Zippo fluid

Back to reality - Seems the more ghastly the posters and commercials are, the more likely children will continue to play with ordnance and explosives to their very detriment. We have a 1997 clip of an incident involving 6th graders who placed a 155 round into a campfire. Although the round detonated low order, a large portion of the projectile killed a young girl and the blast effect and debris injured seven others. One would think that such footage would suffice and preclude future incidences. Sadly, not.

I hope the current popularity of IEDs (especially in films) doesn't end up producing more idiots and casualties among our youth

[Jedburgh]

I hope the current popularity of IEDs (especially in films) doesn't end up producing more idiots and casualties among our youth

Stan, it already has, to a certain extent - no epidemic certainly (despite the concerns in Swampscot), but enough to ping stats up a bit nationwide. Combine the instigation/motivation of IEDs in films, in the news and the availability of directions (often dangerously inaccurate) on the 'net and off they go.

Of course, for some it is merely another form of self-accelerated natural selection.

[selil]

Back to reality - Seems the more ghastly the posters and commercials are, the more likely children will continue to play with ordnance and explosives to their very detriment.

It doesn't have to be ordinance. Between my Junior and Senior year of high school I did boot camp and Armor School at good ol' Fort Knox, Ky (National Guard split option training program). In the course of my three months there I watched a guy get run over by a tank on the ramp, another guy squished between two tanks, and another guy rip off three fingers when a turret traversed unexpectedly. All things we had seen grisly nasty examples of, and all things we had been told billions upon billions of times not to do. In fact the guy directing the tanks that got squished was one of the training cadre.

Months of high quality training can not overcome moments of idiocy a public relations campaign has no hopes.

[J Wolfsberger]

You guys had way more fun. I got shut down when I was trying to make nitroglycerin in high school chem lab. (Hell, I was only going to make a few ounces ... )

[Adam L]

I agree, the PR campaign isn't going to do anything. These kids need something a little more graphic and realistic. Unfortunately, the only ideas I can come up with for this would probably end in law suits.

If you do not mind foul language and want a laugh, I would suggest you see what Denis Leary has to say about this. (Click Here) (I know this is a little of topic, but I think it's along the same lines.)

Adam L

[Stan]

Stan, it already has, to a certain extent - no epidemic certainly (despite the concerns in Swampscot), but enough to ping stats up a bit nationwide. Combine the instigation/motivation of IEDs in films, in the news and the availability of directions (often dangerously inaccurate) on the 'net and off they go.

Ted, had to wait til morning to log onto LEO/EOD. Jeez, the nationwide stats make Swamscot look safe (with only 3 filed incidences). It appears that post 9/11 legislative changes have turned some of our childhood experiments into jail time. Glad I got most of it out of my system and now get paid to do it

Of course, for some it is merely another form of self-accelerated natural selection.

Adam's work safe video (except for 'virgin ears' Ken) fits this to a tee

... In the course of my three months there I watched a guy get run over by a tank on the ramp, another guy squished between two tanks, and another guy rip off three fingers when a turret traversed unexpectedly.

Glad I studied and later taught at Edgewood Area APG, Sam

Regards, Stan

[Jedburgh]

....It appears that post 9/11 legislative changes have turned some of our childhood experiments into jail time. Glad I got most of it out of my system and now get paid to do it

You ain't kiddin'. Making homemade explosives in a RR switching yard? Would probably end up in Gitmo now.

[Jedburgh]

Moderator's Note

Thread closed as there is new, main thread 'IEDs: the home-made bombs that changed modern war': http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=16303


Canadian Army Journal, Spring 08: Ambush, IEDs and COIN: The French Experience

....Some may think that because a technical or tactical solution to IEDs would eliminate their strategic threat, all our energies should be directed at finding such a solution. It is, without a doubt, imperative to do everything possible to protect our troops against ambushes and IEDs. However, it is equally imperative to avoid the dangerous illusion that anti-IED techniques constitute a strategic “silver bullet.” In insurgencies and other asymmetric conflicts, beyond the enemy’s resolve, imagination and cleverness are their greatest strength. New measures to defeat our countermeasures will be found, and the cycle of measure and countermeasure will continue.

This paper proposes to shed strategic light on the issues of ambushes and IEDs in the context of foreign interventions in counter-insurgency missions through a series of short case studies, showing how armed forces have dealt with ambushes, IEDs, mines and booby traps in various eras. The purpose of these case studies is not to conduct a systematic analysis of tactical or even operational level solutions or to provide a full description of the political events surrounding them. It is instead to illustrate that tactical and operational level solution to ambushes and IEDs have contributed to setting the conditions for strategic success in past conflicts, but unfortunately they have not been the determining factor. In other words, tactical and operational level solutions are crucial but not sufficient to deal with such threats.

Three cases studies are presented below: the 19th and 20th century French operations in Algeria, and the French Indochina War. These are followed by a discussion of the key elements that they have in common with respect to the strategic dimension of ambushes and IEDs. Some concluding remarks complete the study.....

[patmc]

This article provides a short but effective study of France in Algeria, Indochina, then again in Algeria, and argues that without a solid strategic plan, operational and tactical victory in COIN are not enough.

Focuses on insurgents use of IEDs and ambushes as strategic weapons, and how tactical countermeasures are not enough for victory, as the counterinsurgent's home populace will likely eventually tire and lose popular will.

The last portion discusses the US in Iraq, and how again, tactical and operational countermeasures against IEDs and ambushes may achieve temporary success, without a grander strategic plan, US will ultimately fail.

Pretty reasonable argument.

[cj.kirkpatrick]

This is an insightful article, and highlight's an American obsession with the "silver bullet" of the IED fight. I think that's b/c it is intellectually easy to find technological solutions to problems. Time and again, we look for the better vehicle, the better EW solution, the better ISR asset to protect routes and Soldiers who travel on those routes.

While it is critical to secure our Soldiers and our lines of communication with all the above force protection strategies, we cannot lose focus on the actual solution to the problem. That solution is found off the very roads we commit so much energy to seizing and securing. To maintain momentum and an offensive mindset, we have to consider security of LOCs and Soldiers as access to people, not an end-state. Constant presence and relationships among people prevents IED emplacement, not the latest and greatest magical tech tool.

[redbullets]

Thanks for posting this. I'm finishing up a piece about IEDs that looks at both the fact that they're here to stay, the genie having been released from the bottle long ago, and then going into a discussion of how the humanitarian community should respond in areas where IEDs pose a much larger threat to civilian populations than landmines/UXO.

Funny how sexy "new" terms like IED suddenly get everyone oriented toward a new Manhattan project, despite all historical evidence to the contrary. I'm using incidents in my piece that include the attempted assassination of Sultan Abdul Hamid II by car bomb (1905, first recorded such incident), the horse-drawn wagon bomb at the JP Morgan Bank (1920), Bath MIchigan (1927), as well as BATF's own (2000-2003) web site to illustrate that IEDs are nothing new, given we have between 200 and 500 successfully detonated IEDs in the US per anum.

Cheers,

[Rex Brynen]

I'm using incidents in my piece that include the attempted assassination of Sultan Abdul Hamid II by car bomb (1905, first recorded such incident)

What about the 24 December 1800 attempted assassination of Napoleon? Surely wagon-bombs count!

The First Consul Napoleon was required to be present at a performance in the Paris Grande Opera. When Napoleon's carriage rushed along Saint Nicolas Street, an explosion resounded. Napoleon did not suffer; his carriage was driving too quickly, but the power of the explosion was such that almost 50 people were killed or wounded and 46 neighboring houses were damaged. The source was a barrel of gunpowder laced with shrapnel that was hidden in a harnessed wagon at the roadside.

"Napoleonic Wars, Espionage During," Encyclopedia of Espionage, Intelligence, and Security (2004)

[reload223]

Moderator's Note

Thread closed a sthere is new, main thread 'IEDs: the home-made bombs that changed modern war': http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=16303


TALIBAN MAKE UNDETECTABLE BOMBS OUT OF WOOD
By Andrew Johnson
Sunday, 10 January 2010

The Taliban's IEDs killed 48 British troops last year Taliban fighters have developed a deadly new generation of their most lethal weapon, the improvised explosive device, or IED, which is almost undetectable because it has no metal or electronic parts, military experts said last week.
IEDs have proved the Taliban's most deadly weapon: three out of five coalition troops killed last year in Afghanistan were victims of the bombs. At least 48 of the 108 British fatalities were caused by IEDs.

Chris Hunter, a former bomb disposal expert who served in Iraq and now runs his own consultancy said the new weapons were being manufactured from wood in Pakistan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-1863353.html

[Ken White]

LINK.
LINK.

The idea has been around since WW I at least. In both Korea and Viet Nam, large 20-50 pound box mines appeared.

[Stan]

Just to echo Ken's response, the means to clear ATs are the very same as they were in WWII.

Mechanical demining is nothing fast, but it is effective. It also turns a good 20 inches of top soil - great for agriculture