Insurgency vs. Civil War

[ryanmleigh]

IMO that is about the best definition you can get. I would add if it is two opposing groups of "citizens"(legal residents) inside the same Geographic boundary or country, it will usually be viewed as Civil War. But as John points out whenever an External power/group "non-citizens" comes into the picture it will tend to be called an Insurgency.

The very term Insurgency is rather nebulous because it often depends on the viewpoint you have as to who is the good guy or bad guy. I have often thought that term was invented because it is more Politically acceptably to use that term as opposed to calling it some type of War(Civil or Un-Civil).

So the introduction of an (outside the state) third party would help to distinguish an insurgency from a civil war. Otherwise, any number of parties inside a state fighting for control over the people would be a civil war?

[slapout9]

So the introduction of an (outside the state) third party would help to distinguish an insurgency from a civil war. Otherwise, any number of parties inside a state fighting for control over the people would be a civil war?

Yes, the tricky part is national boundaries were often drawn by imperial/colonial powers,in which case the indigenous populations may not recognize these boundaries in any real sense. So you could have a civil war/insurgency at the same time.

Example the Taliban are Pashtun....half live in Afghanistan and half live in Pakistan and IMO they don't really care about any border drawn by some foreign power,it is Pashtunastan to them. That as why I think it is much better to understand them in terms of "Bands of Guerrillas in the mist" as opposed to Insurgency/Civil War. Just my 2 cents.

[ryanmleigh]

All- some more to chew on. This came from Dr. Sambanis at Yale who is also a leading civil war scholar who has worked with Drs. Collier and Hoeffler on multiple projects. He wrote "A reasonable way to distinguish between civil war and insurgency is to think of insurgency as a strategy that can be used in a civil war and civil war can be the term that describes a conflict that engages the majority of the population (by contrast, an insurgency might be a strategy pursued by a small group with relatively low levels of public support). As you know, there is no consensus on the definition of these concepts, but a distinction such as the one I suggest might help you support your claim that different interventions/policies can be effective in countering insurgency vs. civil war."
Anyone with more thoughts?

[slapout9]

All- some more to chew on. This came from Dr. Sambanis at Yale who is also a leading civil war scholar who has worked with Drs. Collier and Hoeffler on multiple projects. He wrote "A reasonable way to distinguish between civil war and insurgency is to think of insurgency as a strategy that can be used in a civil war and civil war can be the term that describes a conflict that engages the majority of the population (by contrast, an insurgency might be a strategy pursued by a small group with relatively low levels of public support).

Don't understand why size has much to do with it. In the end the Government is overthrown either by a small group or a large group.

[ryanmleigh]

That is very similar to the question I asked him back. He implies that there is some connection to the amount of popular support. He has not responded back to me yet. Could it have something to do with an insurgency using only guerrilla and UW tactics, while a civil war might have uniformed armies using full spectrum of tactics to win? I am not sure if that simplifies or confuses the discussion.

[slapout9]

while a civil war might have uniformed armies using full spectrum of tactics to win?

That is why I say a civil war can only happen inside the defined boundaries of a nation. If it is inside a nation it doesn't matter if they are uniformed or guerrillas or a mixture, it is still citizens using armed revolt to overthrow THEIR government. What changes it and is a useful for understanding the situation is when an outside influence enters the picture. Civil Wars can be decided completely internally. Insurgencies will have to be decided by somehow dealing with external support (Afghanistan and Pakistan as a modern example.)

[wmthomson]

Insurgencies will have to be decided by somehow dealing with external support (Afghanistan and Pakistan as a modern example.)

Are you suggesting that one defining characteristic of insurgencies is outside support, that the must necessarily have it to be an insurgence?