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Thread: Purpose of the MBT?

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  1. #1
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite_State View Post
    Can you elaborate on this?
    - robust lock-on against tanks with good camouflage
    - susceptible to modern countermeasures (specially the active ones)
    - difficulties against targets with same IR profile as their surroundings (the earth bunker problem)
    - sensor in missile drives up the price, thus making the missile less suitable for low chance shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    - robust lock-on against tanks with good camouflage
    - susceptible to modern countermeasures (specially the active ones)
    - difficulties against targets with same IR profile as their surroundings (the earth bunker problem)
    - sensor in missile drives up the price, thus making the missile less suitable for low chance shots.
    That's not just an issue with the Javelin seeker.

  3. #3
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Javelin has many issues, as does the conceptionally similar Spike.

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    Council Member TAH's Avatar
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    Default A Tank is more then just a gun behind some armor

    Some of the things an MBT can do for you even in small numbers.

    1. Provide stabilized platform with advanced fire control for machine guns.

    2. Provide a range or main gun ammo types to be able to address a wide range of targets and circumstances.

    3. A heavily protected platform from which to rally friendly troops and conduct C2.

    4. A heavy vehicle to use brute force to smash through walls, buildings and obstacles.

    5. A weapon system capable of rapidly firing accurately at point targets at long and very long range.

  5. #5
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAH View Post
    Some of the things an MBT can do for you even in small numbers.

    1. Provide stabilized platform with advanced fire control for machine guns.

    2. Provide a range or main gun ammo types to be able to address a wide range of targets and circumstances.

    3. A heavily protected platform from which to rally friendly troops and conduct C2.

    4. A heavy vehicle to use brute force to smash through walls, buildings and obstacles.

    5. A weapon system capable of rapidly firing accurately at point targets at long and very long range.
    Yep. All things it did in 1917 or 18. It's an infantry support weapon, and it has never progressed from being "a covered field gun," which is what it does best.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    Yep. All things it did in 1917 or 18. It's an infantry support weapon, and it has never progressed from being "a covered field gun," which is what it does best.
    Uh...not really, at least in terms of "being able to do those things" in 1917 or 1918. I would say that the tank was (at best) in its infancy during WW 1 and didn't attain the majority of the capabilities mentioned by TAH until World War 2.
    "On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare."
    T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Blair View Post
    Uh...not really, at least in terms of "being able to do those things" in 1917 or 1918. I would say that the tank was (at best) in its infancy during WW 1 and didn't attain the majority of the capabilities mentioned by TAH until World War 2.
    The tanks in WW2 were more capable, but there were few "new capabilities," bar the specialist engineer vehicles.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    Yep. All things it did in 1917 or 18. It's an infantry support weapon, and it has never progressed from being "a covered field gun," which is what it does best.
    Actually, what it does best is to exploit, which relegates infantry to a "tank support weapon".

    Which is as it should be. Inferiors SHOULD support their superiors.

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    I fail to see that 'conceptual use' in a Tiger2, Chaffee, Pzkpfw III or T-34.
    Are you confusing concept with design? Everything those tanks were designed to do, was being done in WW1. I would further suggest that the Tiger2 was a failed concept, and poorly designed as a result.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAH View Post
    The idea/concept of an MBT is an outgrowth from WWII. No more, infantry & cruiser tanks, no more light, medium & heavy tanks.
    Light, Medium and Heavy, all exist today, and never went away. They have merely morphed, from what they were in WW1.
    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    Actually, what it does best is to exploit, which relegates infantry to a "tank support weapon".
    So show me 8-10 + times where unsupported armour successfully exploited to gain ground and hold it? The historical records shows this as very rare and often leading to sever tank losses.

    Guys, I am not writing my Thesis here on a bulletin board. OK, my bad for letting the cat out of the bag, but I am merely trying to get away from the "I love tanks" school of history.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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