More training, less parading urged.

[Stan]

Strange, I don't remember any parade being offered to me a decade ago when I retired. I do however remember being in many more than I care to count.

I would have thought with the current levels of activity around the world, the Army would be concentrating on sharpshooters and language experts.

Dress-Right-Dress has its roots and rationale, but practical at the moment ?

Regards, Stan

[Uboat509]

There are, unfortunately, a lot of leaders out there who thrive on D & C. They don't really know why it is important but they are good at it because it is relatively easy to be good at and so they overemphasize its importance. I can remember being told when I was with 2nd ACR in the mid '90s that anytime we had a group of three or more soldiers going anywhere on foot, then one of them was required to march the rest. Typical Joes, we just spread ourselves out so that there was never more than two of us walking together. It was not uncommon to see five or ten groups of two guys walking at ten meter intervals down to the motor pool in the morning.

SFC W

[Stu-6]

There are, unfortunately, a lot of leaders out there who thrive on D & C. They don't really know why it is important but they are good at it because it is relatively easy to be good at and so they overemphasize its importance. I can remember being told when I was with 2nd ACR in the mid '90s that anytime we had a group of three or more soldiers going anywhere on foot, then one of them was required to march the rest. Typical Joes, we just spread ourselves out so that there was never more than two of us walking together. It was not uncommon to see five or ten groups of two guys walking at ten meter intervals down to the motor pool in the morning.

SFC W

Don’t feel bad we were doing the same thing in 1AD.

D and C has its purpose but it doesn’t take much time be good enough at it. As for retirement parades and the like, total BS we waste soldier’s time and tax payers money just to stroke some fools ego. I’ll never forget we had a brigade change of command ceremony, the entire brigade had to come out for about 6 hours (counting practices time) the highlight was the wives’ choir singing every verse of the national anthem, soldiers where struggling to hold a salute for that long . . . what a waste of time.

[SWJED]

From the MCG forum - Close Order Drill in Iraq?

[nichols]

There is no place for COD in today's military. Teaching and conducting it only enforces first generation infantry tactics plain and simple. COD promotes the concept of "strengh in numbers" and the only way to have it is by have the troops all lined up to look pretty and go over the top in WW I trenches.

We are pushing for the Strategic Corporal, Distributed Operations, COIN, LIC, DIME or whatever today's neat acronym is while we cognitively pass on to the junior leaders that good military leadership is founded in marching the troops in squares.

Why bother with language, culture, tactics, techniques, and proceedures when all no need to do is stand in formation. COD, spit shined boots, pressed out cammies are like a good coat of paint being applied to rusted metal. It looks nice but the foundation will crumble at the most unopportune moment.

I HATE COD

[marct]

Hi Nichols,

There is no place for COD in today's military. Teaching and conducting it only enforces first generation infantry tactics plain and simple. COD promotes the concept of "strengh in numbers" and the only way to have it is by have the troops all lined up to look pretty and go over the top in WW I trenches.

Why bother with language, culture, tactics, techniques, and proceedures when all no need to do is stand in formation. COD, spit shined boots, pressed out cammies are like a good coat of paint being applied to rusted metal. It looks nice but the foundation will crumble at the most unopportune moment.

Do you feel that it has no place in moral and building an esprit du corps? I agree that as a combat drill, it is useless, but I think it still has an important moral function.

Marc

[Tom Odom]

Admittedly I am something of a radical on this and related phenomenon. My take on it is that there is no place in the Army for the pomp and circumstance anymore beyond 3rd Infantry burial and tomb guard elements. That means all the bands, choirs, sports teams like the Golden Kinights (And I am a broken wing skydiver), boxing, pellet gun shooting, etc etc are wasted slots that should go to filling combat needs rather than entertainment and recruiting PR that is (again in my admittedly biased view) misleading to say the least.

OK throw rocks!

best

Tom

[jonSlack]

"I'd like to have two Armies -- one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little Soldiers, staffs, distinguished and doddering Generals and deal little regimental officers, who would be deeply concerned over their General's bowel movements or their Colonel's piles; an Army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country.

The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage uniforms, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the Army in which I should like to fight." -- Jean Larteguy

Major recurring formal and ceremonial events requiring formal drill and ceremony should be handled by speciality units like the Old Guard. For recurring ceremonies and events, major installations should form a garrison "Old Guard" instead of "tasking" units in the garrison.

One of the biggest kicks in the junk is having to cancel a week of training on no notice so that you and your Soldiers can go stand in formation for a week for a ceremony and the numerous rehearsals required before hand.

[nichols]

Hi Nichols,



Do you feel that it has no place in moral and building an esprit du corps? I agree that as a combat drill, it is useless, but I think it still has an important moral function.

Marc

Marc,

I feel that COD promotes centralized command & control. Building moral is achieved through successful real world and training mission where the individual small unit leader made instant decisions without waiting for higher authority to tell him or her what to do.

We push for Commander's Intent in order for the subordinate to operate without micromanagement yet we love a parade.

To a person with a hammer, every problem is a nail.

COD bad, rapid decision making good.