Hi Stan,
Originally Posted by Stan Reber
Good Evening Marc !
Oddly enough, I recently had a strange conversation (actually several emails) with a relatively young soldier perplexed about his boss. I intend to keep both names out of this.
It took me several hours to think over my response. Although I've been retired for nearly a decade, I have not forgotten nor neglected what I was taught and when said lessons were appropriate (in the form of advice), etc.
Yes, Marc, it's going to get more confusing, but you somehow already knew that
I only know one of the them, but I chose to remain somewhat neutral with my response. Rather, I decided to tell the other what our primary responsibilities are, be it Drill and Ceremony with accompanied boredom at post, or abroad with upheaval and hostility, where we are at times measured as individuals, but still very much team members.
I believe the other used the term "not this cat" in his response.
I will PM you and you decide. I am more than interested and value your opinion (go figure !).
Regards, Stan
Damn, Stan! Keep his up and they may cal you back as an officer!
Marc
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
Senior Research Fellow,
The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
Carleton University
http://marctyrrell.com/
As preparation for an OIF deployment, I recently spent a couple of weeks at 89th RRC's Pre-Command Course. 1/3d of the time there was spent on D&C, the rest on stateside, administrative bull####.
The entire 89th RRC, except for the headquarters, which dreamed up this course, has been deployed at least once for OIF. These guys are in "Condition White" permanently.
This all ties into both totemism (as Marc answered earlier) and the regimental ideals (as you mentioned/asked earlier, jcustis).So true, and yet every time a rifle is tossed in the air, it catches the imagination of a boy or girl, and they grow up to give something of themselves, and do great things as Marines.
So marct, how does all this tie into totemism?
There was a time not so long ago when Army Regulations called for an evening parade every day except Saturday and Sunday, and there was a full-dress inspection Sunday. Part of the reason for this was roll call and the reading (called "publishing" in those days) of orders for the coming day, but it was also intended to give soldiers a sense of belonging to something greater than themselves. This was never specifically said, but if you read the recollections of both officers and enlisted men from the period this sense comes through strongly.
As the Army drifted away from the regimental system, I believe the meaning of D&C was lost as well. It's hard to form pride when you're only going to be with this bunch of bozos for a year or so...two if you're lucky. And how do you feel pride for your unit when it was mechanized infantry yesterday but now through the grace of some nitwit in higher-land it's now armor?
I would also say that the career justification phase is a direct legacy of World War II and raised to an art form in Vietnam. One of the legacies of Marshall and Eisenhower, raised to a fine pitch by business school grads in the 1950s and '60s, this mindset has done great damage.
what to learn
COD should have its cadence in elementary arabic or farsi. Every soldier should know 500 emergency words in both. Every soldier should learn how to sit sharpsooter still for six hours before shooting a target. Every soldier should compete on watching video monitors from stationary or moving/robotic monitors for suspicious activity. Those are good drills.
Every command should trade in every single piece of ornamental stuff, band instruments, budget for drill, and spend the money on the best protection from mines or ambushes, or top equiment in non-painful lie detectors, thermal scans, MRI machines, voice stress. Every Iraqi neighborhood should expect 5% of its people to be rounded up every day, and given simple lie detector tests - one question - which of your neighbors is an insurgent. Then release them, round up the insurgents, send them to (Greenland, Alaska, the Falklands) someplace cold and wet, and give them jobs.
That is what I would do if I were in Iraq.
We are focusing on tactical language, not close order drill at the current time.
Too Much Time
Ok, I am not concerned at all with the number of people in a band, a sporting team, recruiters, etc, etc. that are exempt from combat. That is their profession, and if that is what the military hired them for, why would we NEED them on the battlefield? We had the 101st band come to Tikrit, and it was nice, but once they did their thing, they packed up and moved on. We have people on bases right now who have one task...pulling over speeders. seriously, traffic cops on FOB/ COB's. THOSE are the ones i have a problem with, not the band geeks. the people with practical combat training (I.E. security forces from the air force) NOT doing combat patrols. serious mis-allocation of time, expense, and talent.
Officer PC?
As a civilian outsider and contractor, I saw alot of Field grade officers who were more concerned with being politically correct and/or punching their ticket to get promoted rather than being a warrior. Most MAJ's, COL's and GEN's are merely political animals and have lost their warrior ethos. They are closed minded and have had their hands tied by DOD policy. There is no ability to modify their tactics without approval from "on high"...very similar to Hitler controlling Panzer movement or Johnson guiding the bombing in North VN. Let the boots on the ground fight the war with realistic rules of engagement. Just my $0.02.
29 Years...
As an insider and outsider - active, reserve, government and contractor - I cannot agree with the sweeping categorization that most MAJ's, COL's and GEN's are merely political animals and have lost their warrior ethos. In fact, I take exception to that statement. Yes, we all have our stories and experiences related to those who are not our best and brightest. Still, my experience is that amongst the captain through lieutenant colonel rank we have a treasure trove of talent and professionalism. We also have a stable of colonels and above of the same mettle. For every Franks we got - we had a Zinni... I'd feel more comfortable with your statement if I knew a bit more of the situation (s) that led you to your conclusion.
I know that every time I hear the phrase "warrior ethos" I want to puke and claw out my eyes.
I'm the kind of guy who is going to die early of being a "type A" personality. I mean, I really, really love fighting. I have since I was a little kid. It has hamstrung both my military and my civilian career(s). So when a guy with a $40 haircut and manicured nails starts talking about "warrior ethos" my blood pressure starts to spike. (I'm not talking about anyone in particular, just generalizing.)
But... having said that, we have some really, really smart killers out there wearing O-3 through O-10 rank whom I respect and am in awe of. Does the Army promotion system have some issues? Yes. But the things we call "bull####" (and are more the exception than the rule) in the military are multiplied 1000-fold in the civilian "leadership" world.
Does someone have the original article? I can only find things like this:
http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/Columb...0037&oliID=229
V/R
Ok, so "warrior ethos" seems to be a buzz word used by, "a guy with a $40 haircut and manicured nails" it also is being pushed by drill sgts in basic and AIT. the newbies coming fresh out of school are being trained to live by this. The unit that replaced us in Tikrit had a 35-40% population of E-1 - E-3's. They were gung-ho, without any real-world experience. Still, they had the mission in their hearts, and good leadership. THAT above all else, is what matters. Those kids will grow to understand the real meaning of "warrior ethos"
I have met some really good officers, aaand some NOT SO good ones. just like with any work force, good leaders are made, not born.
I have a quote in the back of my head that is, I think, from Vegetius:
"'Warriors' are meat on the table for 'Soldiers' with discipline."
I would also submit that one builds "Strategic Corporals" and wins "Small Wars" with the head, not the heart. I've been in the Army long enough and have studied enough history to distrust buzz-words and the people who use them. What I want in a soldier is someone who will tell me "Sir, are you sure you want me to do this?" when appropriate, yet do the "hard things" when necessary, and to have the intelligence and presence of mind to know the difference. "Warriors" have a certain utility, but in the pre-buzz-word sense of the word, a "warrior" has limited utility when the center of gravity is Humanitarian Aid, for instance.
Yes, he was good at quoting in the 4th Century, but would he make it in today's reality ?I have a quote in the back of my head that is, I think, from Vegetius:
http://en.allexperts.com/e/v/ve/vegetius.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VegetiusPublius Flavius Vegetius Renatus was a celebrated military writer of the 4th century. Nothing is known of his life, station and military experience.
Being that I have worked Humanitarian Aid both as active duty and civilian for now 17 years, I'm not sure Vegetius could have handled it. A tad too linear for today.In particular he stresses the high standard of the recruits and the excellence of the training and the officer corps. In reality, Vegetius probably describes an ideal rather than the reality. The Army of the early Empire was a formidable fighting force but it probably was not in its entirety quite as good as Vegetius describes.
Warriors! Uh-ah! and other assorted crap
Concur wholeheartedly we need to make an effort to purge the military of foolish, empty buzz words and sayings that have been forced upon the masses like Maoist or Stalinist propaganda. Yes the masses will utter them, but not from the heart. While we may disagree on the ability to do so, I think we all agree we need to strive to develop strategic corporals, and this approach doesn't work. You see the political czars (the officers) and their henchmen (the SGMs) stand in front of the formations echoing their empty slogans with false grins on their faces, when everyone knows they have more productive things to do. This falls under the category of parading, all show, but no go. You measure motivation not with uh-ahs (which no one in Special Forces ever wants to hear, it is like being exposed to a Muster agent), but with physcial training tests, skill tests, number of AWOLs, etc. This type of motivation mean anything, yet we mindlessly pursue it just because we always have.
Along with the dog tag accessories that go with them."Concur wholeheartedly we need to make an effort to purge the military of foolish, empty buzz words and sayings that have been forced upon the masses like Maoist or Stalinist propaganda."
Ahem...So just how borderline dull/normal do you prefer your NCO's?Marc,
I like your attitude, you would have made a great NCO, albeit waaay tooo intelligent for the job
You are indeed very correct, COD were and probably still are for basic training, a means of building a sense of spirit and team work. Had to, the Drill would punish all the rest for one small idiot's mistake. You would later work out the problems at night
I also like Tom's approach. But then, he thought I worked wonders at times. However, I didn't get their on my own, I also had a drill who set me straight and emphasized in no small way, how important this would later become.
I'll let Tom decide if my Drill "dun good".
Regards, Stan
And yes, COD is essential for turning 120 individuals who joined an Army of One (Thank God they ditched that little promotional device) into something resembling troopers, much like confidence courses, fearing-then-hating-then-loving drills, and getting the fat kid over the wall on the obstacle course, or any other team building activity is in basic training...
By the time you get done their eyeballs should snap when they do, "Eyes right."
And one of the few institutions in this country (USA) with traditions is the armed forces. Traditions require ceremony, but the less dog and pony shows, and mindless chicken#### regs, the better, at least as far as anyone who has cleared AIT goes. There are better things to do.
Last edited by Charlie 14; 05-29-2007 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Creative license...
This reminds me of that jerk in Catch-22 who gets everyone to drill all the time. And then they make him in charge of everyone in Italy.
Heh, heh...Well, OK, had to bring that up didn't you...This reminds me of that jerk in Catch-22 who gets everyone to drill all the time. And then they make him in charge of everyone in Italy.
Lieutenant Scheisskopf longed desperately to win parades and sat up half the night working on it while his wife waited amorously for him in bed thumbing through Krafft-Ebing to her favorite passages. He read books on marching. He manipulated boxes of chocolate until they melted in his hands and then maneuvered in ranks of twelve a set of plastic cowboys he had bought from a mail-order house under an assumed name and kept locked away from everyone's eyes during the day. Leonardo's exercises in anatomy proved indispensable. One evening he felt the need for a live model and directed his wife to march around the room.
"Naked?" she asked hopefully.
Lieutenant Scheisskopf smacked his hands over his eyes in exasperation. It was the despair of Lieutenant Scheisskopf's life to be chained to a woman who was incapable of looking beyond her own dirty, sexual desires to the titanic struggles for the unattainable in which noble man could become heroically engaged.
"Why don't you ever whip me?" she pouted one night.
I know it's a necro-post, but one thing has bothered me about this, but I let it drop. Until now.
The problem with teaching "everyone" about the "warrior ethos" and using it as a buzz-words, is that there are damned few people out there who are really warriors. The rest are just Joes doing a Job.
You cannot teach someone to be a warrior; they either are or they are not.
Trust me. I'm a warrior. I know other warriors when I see them. Not being a "warrior" is not a handicap. In fact, being a warrior is an incredible handicap in life. You are constantly riding to the sound of the guns, and fighting the good fight, even when it is not the smart fight. Then, when you are inevitably discarded because you don't "fit in" with all the normal human beings, you get to grow older and bitter. And you feel useless to society.
Frankly, I take the "warrior ethos" push by the Army as an insult. And alternatively, incredibly funny. The Army is no place for "warriors". They are much too regimented and closed-minded for "real" warriors to truly thrive.
The Spartans and the Japanese did a pretty good job.You cannot teach someone to be a warrior; they either are or they are not.
Of course they started early.
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