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  1. #1
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    This has been a realm of concern since the 1970's. The first computer warfare activities were in the 1980's. In the mid 1990's substantial cyber attacks occurred. The question is of scope and what you consider to be "cyber" and to be an "attack".

    If you want to have this discussion about real capability this is likely not the forum for it.
    Last edited by selil; 11-12-2007 at 02:47 AM.
    Sam Liles
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    I actually hope that this report is completely true. Our geeks are nerdier, better funded, more organized, better equipped, and far more experienced than theirs. Not to be too overconfident, but this fight, if it occurs, will be about as lopsided as the Titanic versus the iceburg.

  3. #3
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    And this just released.

    Interesting article on trojan horses being installed on drives being targeted to government agencies. This is going to fuel the no foreign equipment purchased for government like the IBM debacle.

    Bureau warns on tainted discs
    FOCUSED ATTACK: Large-capacity hard disks often used by government agencies were found to contain Trojan horse viruses, Investigation Bureau officials warned
    By Yang Kuo-wen, Lin Ching-chuan and Rich Chang
    STAFF REPORTERS
    Sunday, Nov 11, 2007, Page 2

    Portable hard discs sold locally and produced by US disk-drive manufacturer Seagate Technology have been found to carry Trojan horse viruses that automatically upload to Beijing Web sites anything the computer user saves on the hard disc, the Investigation Bureau said.

    Around 1,800 of the portable Maxtor hard discs, produced in Thailand, carried two Trojan horse viruses: autorun.inf and ghost.pif, the bureau under the Ministry of Justice said.

    The tainted portable hard disc uploads any information saved on the computer automatically and without the owner's knowledge to www.nice8.OBSCURED (.org) and www.we168.OBSCURED (.org), the bureau said.

    The affected hard discs are Maxtor Basics 500G discs.

    The bureau said that hard discs with such a large capacity are usually used by government agencies to store databases and other information.

    Sensitive information may have already been intercepted by Beijing through the two Web sites, the bureau said.

    The bureau said that the method of attack was unusual, adding that it suspected Chinese authorities were involved.

    In recent years, the Chinese government has run an aggressive spying program relying on information technology and the Internet, the bureau said.

    The bureau said this was the first time it had found that Trojan horse viruses had been placed on hard discs before they even reach the market.

    The bureau said that it had instructed the product's Taiwanese distributor, Xander International, to remove the products from shelves immediately.

    The bureau said that it first received complaints from consumers last month, saying they had detected Trojan horse viruses on brand new hard discs purchased in Taiwan.

    Agents began examining hard discs on the market and found the viruses linked to the two Web sites.

    Anyone who has purchased this kind of hard disc should return it to the place of purchase, the bureau said.

    The distributor told the Chinese-language Liberty Times (the Taipei Times' sister newspaper) that the company had sold 1,800 tainted discs to stores last month.

    It said it had pulled 1,500 discs from shelves, while the remaining 300 had been sold by the stores to consumers.

    Seagate's Asian Pacific branch said it was looking into the matter.
    Sam Liles
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    This has been a realm of concern since the 1970's. The first computer warfare activities were in the 1980's. In the mid 1990's substantial cyber attacks occurred. The question is of scope and what you consider to be "cyber" and to be an "attack".

    If you want to have this discussion about real capability this is likely not the forum for it.
    What forum do you recommend?

  5. #5
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffC View Post
    What forum do you recommend?
    My concern is the management might get offended. I got warned about going off on a tangent once before.
    Sam Liles
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    My concern is the management might get offended. I got warned about going off on a tangent once before.
    Well, that's fair, but surely there must be a forum here where a discussion of Cyberwarfare is on-topic.

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffC View Post
    Well, that's fair, but surely there must be a forum here where a discussion of Cyberwarfare is on-topic.
    There really isn't a sub-forum to discuss it.

    Futurists & Theorists "Future Competition & Conflict, Theory & Nature of Conflict, 4GW through 9?GW, Transformation, RMA, etc." is where most people might want to put it but it is a real and now threat.

    Catch-All, Military Art & Science is the open category but really it's been more about non-standard equipment.

    The Information War forum might seem like a good place for discussion of cyber warfare but they are NOT the same thing. Cyber warfare is about the manipuation of the computing asset not the communication channel.

    Cyber-warfare is attacks against the infrastructures of command, control, coordination and communication. In general (staying high level) cyber warfare are attacks against the security services of confidentiality, integrity, availability, non-repudiation, and authentication (McCumber model as adapted by Schou, Maconahay, Ragsdale). Cyber-warfare can be smart bombs into the telephone company, trojan horses hidden on hard drives, laptops stolen from desks, and social engineering users. I've got a pretty extensive high level slide presentation I can put up on my blog if interested.
    Sam Liles
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    The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives.
    All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    There really isn't a sub-forum to discuss it.

    Futurists & Theorists "Future Competition & Conflict, Theory & Nature of Conflict, 4GW through 9?GW, Transformation, RMA, etc." is where most people might want to put it but it is a real and now threat.

    Catch-All, Military Art & Science is the open category but really it's been more about non-standard equipment.

    The Information War forum might seem like a good place for discussion of cyber warfare but they are NOT the same thing. Cyber warfare is about the manipuation of the computing asset not the communication channel.

    Cyber-warfare is attacks against the infrastructures of command, control, coordination and communication. In general (staying high level) cyber warfare are attacks against the security services of confidentiality, integrity, availability, non-repudiation, and authentication (McCumber model as adapted by Schou, Maconahay, Ragsdale). Cyber-warfare can be smart bombs into the telephone company, trojan horses hidden on hard drives, laptops stolen from desks, and social engineering users. I've got a pretty extensive high level slide presentation I can put up on my blog if interested.
    Sure. Post the slide show, and I'll link to it from my blog as well. I also put up a request for the SWC forum mods to consider opening an official Cyberwarfare sub-forum.

  9. #9
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Jeff,
    One of our members, MarcT was working on a Cyberwar paper just a while back, he might be able to help get this idea started.

    Regards, Stan

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