View Poll Results: Should FM 3-24 be updated?

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Thread: Time for a FM 3-24: Counterinsurgency Update

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  1. #1
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
    Still, let's say we started updating FM3-24 tomorrow - when would the revisions be complete? 3-4 years maybe?
    3-4 years for an Irregular Warfare TTP manual? Nothing about so-called COIN needs "inventing" or much "thinking about." It's a "how to kill the bad guys - AND ONLY THE BAD GUYs - book," and context would be very important so it probably deal in very broad brush strokes, because what really matter is "Theatre Specific" Manuals like the CATOM.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    3-4 years for an Irregular Warfare TTP manual? Nothing about so-called COIN needs "inventing" or much "thinking about." It's a "how to kill the bad guys - AND ONLY THE BAD GUYs - book," and context would be very important so it probably deal in very broad brush strokes, because what really matter is "Theatre Specific" Manuals like the CATOM.
    This FM 3 -24 is designed for battaluion level and above "leaders and planners". So it's not a TTP manual.

    What about something for the guys battalion level and down who actually are there to do the business? A doctrinal gap?

    Start with what the private soldier needs to know to effectively fight this type of war and then take it from there. It doesn't matter what the colonels know if the soldiers on the ground know Jack.

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default FM 3-24.2, Tactics in Counterinsurgency, came out last year

    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    What about something for the guys battalion level and down who actually are there to do the business? A doctrinal gap?
    It's marginally adequate, way too big and overly pedantic but that seems to be the trend nowadays...

    Follow the link provided by Cav Guy on this page (LINK - big .pdf). Not much of any import in the rest of the thread...

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    Council Member Infanteer's Avatar
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    No need for a "tactics in COIN" manual - tactics in COIN and tactics in a conventional fight are the same, just applied to a different environment (here comes the METT-TC thing again).

    Offensive and defensive operations and patrolling, patrolling and patrolling. That and learn how to eat with the locals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infanteer View Post
    No need for a "tactics in COIN" manual - tactics in COIN and tactics in a conventional fight are the same, just applied to a different environment (here comes the METT-TC thing again).

    Offensive and defensive operations and patrolling, patrolling and patrolling. That and learn how to eat with the locals.
    As simple as that? Now I am begining to understand where it is all going wrong out there...

  6. #6
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infanteer View Post
    No need for a "tactics in COIN" manual - tactics in COIN and tactics in a conventional fight are the same, just applied to a different environment (here comes the METT-TC thing again).

    Offensive and defensive operations and patrolling, patrolling and patrolling. That and learn how to eat with the locals.
    only correct IF you got trained right in the first place. When I was doing my basic in 1980, all the training was peppered with Northern Ireland TTPs. The problem was that by 1988 when I was doing Recce Commanders, NI TTPs had washed out what you needed to fight a Soviet MRR.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    It's marginally adequate, way too big and overly pedantic but that seems to be the trend nowadays...

    Follow the link provided by Cav Guy on this page (LINK - big .pdf). Not much of any import in the rest of the thread...
    OK, now we are making progress. FM3-24-2 "establishes doctrine (fundamental principles) for tactical counterinsurgency (COIN)
    operations at the company, battalion, and brigade level."


    Now for platoon and section/squad level, anyone?

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