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Thread: The Wikileaks collection

  1. #421
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    Default Perfidious Albion?

    Julian Assange bail decision made by UK authorities, not Sweden

    It had been widely thought Sweden had made the decision to oppose bail, with the CPS acting merely as its representative. But today the Swedish prosecutor's office told the Guardian it had "not got a view at all on bail" and that Britain had made the decision to oppose bail.

    Lawyers for Assange reacted to the news with shock and said CPS officials had told them this week it was Sweden which had asked them to ensure he was kept in prison.

  2. #422
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    Default Why is everyone playing dumb?

    Bail decision on WikiLeaks' Assange

    Assange's lawyer Mark Stephens said:

    "The question we have to ask is if they weren't talking to the Swedes, who were they talking to? It's highly irregular because, as (director of public prosecutions) Keir Starmer said on Radio 4 this morning, the CPS are supposed to act as the agents of the Swedish authorities and they appear to be acting without the knowledge of their director or the Swedes. It remains opaque and unclear as to who actually gave the order to oppose bail."
    Unclear to whom?

    Obvious that Uncle Sam gave the order and the Brits said "Sir, yes sir!"

    ...the special relationship you see.

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    Is it just me or does anyone else think Assange has the makings of the perfect Bond villian? Definately better than Elliot Carver at getting the hairs on my neck to stick up"!





    (Yes, I'm painfully aware of the inherent irony of the link above!)

  4. #424
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Well, Assange lacks a lair, he extracts secret information and ####s multiple women on a single short voyage. Sound more like Bond than Bond villain to me...

  5. #425
    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tukhachevskii View Post
    Is it just me or does anyone else think Assange has the makings of the perfect Bond villian? Definately better than Elliot Carver at getting the hairs on my neck to stick up"!





    (Yes, I'm painfully aware of the inherent irony of the link above!)
    I actually think he's more of a pathetic little dweeb who's also an attention whore. He is rather good at making some folks show their unbridled paranoia when it comes to "gov'ment", but that's about it as far as I'm concerned.
    "On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare."
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  6. #426
    Council Member J Wolfsberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Blair View Post
    I actually think he's more of a pathetic little dweeb who's also an attention whore. He is rather good at making some folks show their unbridled paranoia when it comes to "gov'ment", but that's about it as far as I'm concerned.
    Agreed. Furthermore, the worst punishment he's likely to see for any of his behavior will be any fines the Swedish courts impose for upsetting a couple of women with his loutish actions. Given the reported circumstances, I doubt he'll even see that much.

    All the rest of it is a kabuki to dance to show that the responsible parties are Doing Something. Since the only people shocked by any of the "revelations" seem to be the naive and/or inattentive, this whole thing will blow over once the Next Big Crisis pops up. Assange will fade back into the shadows until the next time he needs an ego massage and has a bunch of leaked documents to pay for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Wolfsberger View Post
    Agreed. Furthermore, the worst punishment he's likely to see for any of his behavior will be any fines the Swedish courts impose for upsetting a couple of women with his loutish actions. Given the reported circumstances, I doubt he'll even see that much.
    Loutish actions? We are ever so prudish aren't we? Don't suppose you ever woke up naked in a bed somewhere with a woman you don't recognise not remembering what you did or she did and how you got there?

    Can't wait for the detail as it is bound to embarrass the Swedes and their US puppet masters.

    All the rest of it is a kabuki to dance to show that the responsible parties are Doing Something. Since the only people shocked by any of the "revelations" seem to be the naive and/or inattentive, this whole thing will blow over once the Next Big Crisis pops up. Assange will fade back into the shadows until the next time he needs an ego massage and has a bunch of leaked documents to pay for it.
    Who took him out of the shadows in the first place? Who has through their actions made him a martyr? It is surely a case study and a classic example of the incompetent handling of this leak. The USG has no excuse for this as they have known about the leaks for some months now and so had time to prepare an intelligent response rather than the puerile knee jerk reaction we have seen. This administration was tested and it failed.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-16-2010 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Fix quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tukhachevskii View Post
    Is it just me or does anyone else think Assange has the makings of the perfect Bond villian? Definately better than Elliot Carver at getting the hairs on my neck to stick up"!

    (Yes, I'm painfully aware of the inherent irony of the link above!)

    I think of Dr. Evil & MiniMe in Goldmember. In part because of his past e-cash for gold venture that predated PayPal by some value of too soon. The whole weird, weird, speaking in the third person thing doesn't come across as very well wrapped to say the least either.

    I don't like the whole Pied Piper of ####headdery thing he has going on. It's difficult for me not to go off on a rant about this damned mess to say the very least.

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    http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20026074-281.html
    Assange legal case could hang on contradiction - Declan McCullagh

    This talks about logs & the absence of the `brown bag' of non-collusive information transfer. Since I mentioned that in prior posts I wanted to pass this link on. I find it interesting, and perhaps telling, that the Germany-based Openleaks effort has a lot of structure devoted specifically to avoiding that pitfall. One other thing that's perhaps other people are starting to clue in on is there's plenty of deception flying around. The documents that WL dumps may be honest information, but the things that people (not just Julian) say in the organization are frequently deceptive.

  10. #430
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Perfidious Albion?

    JMA,

    Returning to your earlier posts 201 & 202, there is an odd BBC News report entitled:
    US 'trying to invent law' to extradite Assange
    and cites John Pilger:
    .. the United States is "trying to invent a law" under which they might also attempt to extradite Mr Assange.
    Link to a heated studio discussion:http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9301452.stm

    I have no idea whether such an attempt is likely, but our UK-USA extradition agreement is rather one-sided and subject of considerable opposition to so far successful extraditions (bar one case IIRC). If Assange was returned to Sweden I doubt if Sweden has such a extradition agreement as the UK's.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-18-2010 at 10:01 PM.
    davidbfpo

  11. #431
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    What would the U.S. do once it had Assange in custody? Sue him for copyright violation?

    Getting him into custody would only worsen the problems, I think.

    He's being hyped-up as the personification of Wikileaks already, and we know how serious the U.S. government really was in dealing with the personification of AQ.
    Such personifications serve propaganda and politics purposes; petty distractions.

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    Fuchs raises the golden key for EU extradition.

    What is he being charged with?

    If it is related to treason/espionage, and with possible capital punishment, there is a wholly different threshhold, too.

    Waterboarding, rendition, and execution are rather frowned upon in polite Euro society.

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    It's entirely possible that you'll be able to see any legal proceedings on TV.

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    And get some shaky cell phone footage of his hanging?

    How does an Australian Computer Nerd become as Public Enemy to the US as Saddam?

    I suspect that once the US traces down all of Assange's supporters and fellow info-jihadists, that most will be 13 year old boys playing cyber warrior while Mom thinks they are asleep in their rooms.

    What does that say about our strategies and tactics into the future?

    The Mouse Who Roared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidbfpo View Post
    JMA,

    Returning to your earlier posts 201 & 202, there is an odd BBC News report entitled: and cites John Pilger:

    Link to a heated studio discussion:http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9301452.stm
    Good stuff... I like robust debate.

    The side effect of the idiotic USG reaction is that it pushes basically conservative people like me and many others into the same camp as the "lefties" like Pilger and Michael Moore and further isolates the USG from their local and international support base.

    I have no idea whether such an attempt is likely, but our UK-USA extradition agreement is rather one-sided and subject of considerable opposition to so far successful extraditions (bar one case IIRC). If Assange was returned to Sweden I doubt if Sweden has such a extradition agreement as the UK's.
    The issue of ex post facto laws or retroactive or retrospective laws are not considered acceptable even in the US.

    The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is applicable:

    Article 11
    Paragraph 2: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
    No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
    One would have thought that the USG (after the Guantánamo Bay fiasco) would have realised that they also need to play by the rules. Seems not.

    This Keystone Cops approach to Assange and WikiLeaks does nothing for the US reputation across the world... which since the hanging chad, dimpled chad or pregnant chad comedy is close to laughing stock levels. I for one am sad about this (FWTW).
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-19-2010 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Fix first quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    Good stuff... I like robust debate.
    I would strongly advise against following David's link to the Today program. It was not good stuff, or a debate, it was however robust.
    Today, and its sister program PM, provide some of the UK's better broadcast news and analysis but this was a waste of their airtime as it was not two people articulating opposing ends of the debate but two idiots trying to shout over the top of each other - net result we never get to learn anything. This is not uncommon in party politics but as both were 'journalists' I expected better.
    Last edited by JJackson; 12-19-2010 at 02:12 PM.

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    Default Assange wouldn't be in so much trouble

    if he had paid attention in Consideration of Others classes.

    "No means No."

  18. #438
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    Default BBC News report

    JJackson,

    In response to your post:
    I would strongly advise against following David's link to the Today program. It was not good stuff, or a debate, it was however robust.
    That is why I added in my post:
    there is an odd BBC News report
    and then a caveat:
    Link to a heated studio discussion
    . Two traffic light signals I consider enough.

    I thought the BBC News item was really odd, with no meaningful explanation, nor did John Pilger IMHO explain his suspicions in the 'discussion' about a potential extradition to the USA.

    I too like BBC Radio 4's Today programme, but it has too frequent editorial lapses and gives airtime to the views of tiny minorities, such as Omar Brookes and IIRC Anjem Choudhry.

    Pilger has his very clear position, the 'discussion' was badly managed and even 'robust' is being polite - thanks JMA!
    davidbfpo

  19. #439
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Planner View Post
    I suspect that once the US traces down all of Assange's supporters and fellow info-jihadists, that most will be 13 year old boys playing cyber warrior while Mom thinks they are asleep in their rooms.
    According to what I've been seeing through various venues many of Assanges followers appear to be rather good-looking young women who are political activists in other forms too. Edit, to add "They are not appearing to be technophiles"
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  20. #440
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    David I am in complete agreement - hope I did not give the impression I wasn't. It was your traffic lights that peeked my interest but Sarah Montague never got control of the 'discussion' and the resulting shouting match meant the audience learnt nothing. I was disappointed and warning others that listening to the rather unedifying exchange was probably not an effective use of their time.

    JMA I liked your post just thought the 'good stuff' might lead readers to think this was an informative robust debate with points being made and countered - sadly no such luck.
    Last edited by JJackson; 12-19-2010 at 06:43 PM.

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