The Wikileaks collection

[91bravojoe]

Let's try for "how secret is it?"

The state department knew of the leak several months ago and had ample time to alert staff in sensitive locations. Its pre-emptive scaremongering over the weekend stupidly contrived to hint at material not in fact being published. Nor is the material classified top secret, being at a level that more than 3 million US government employees are cleared to see, and available on the defence department's internal Siprnet. Such dissemination of "secrets" might be thought reckless, suggesting a diplomatic outreach that makes the British empire seem minuscule.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...bles-wikileaks

If you have a better number than 3 million, please source it.

Let's attempt "What's really involved?"

Some stars shine through the banality such as the heroic envoy in Islamabad, Anne Patterson. She pleads that Washington's whole policy is counterproductive: it "risks destabilising the Pakistani state, alienating both the civilian government and the military leadership, and provoking a broader governance crisis without finally achieving the goal". Nor is any amount of money going to bribe the Taliban to our side. Patterson's cables are like missives from the Titanic as it already heads for the bottom.

From same link.

That's what the US is afraid of: documenting chronic incompetence in the AF-PAK theatre.

[Steve the Planner]

91:

Lot in that.

Juan Cole blog takes other views, like why the US apparatus is so focused on Iran. Go around to a bunch of regular suspects and ask them things about what you and some other guy could fight about, and you get lots of traffic.

What useful cables address the potential; failings/challenges of those parties themselves---The Demographic Bomb in Isreal, the Democracy Bomb everywhere in these respondent's home turfs.

I hope we are not just getting what we are going out looking for. Diplomats like Patterson should be effective eyes and ears on matters, and alternative frames of matters, that are important, and not just on what is popular and printable.

Let's remember that the most publicized of these cables are the same gossipy "hot topics" that the press wants, too.

All the power elites like this kind of hot gossip as much as the public, but more so if it is "secret" for them. The authors of these hottest cables, out in the field and clawing from attention insight the beltway, are not immune to the temptation to right a hot memo.

Like the wise hands here and elsewhere note, there is a legitimate bridge to cross to convert field reports to wisdom.

[Presley Cannady]

I wonder why English uses the word "intelligence" with many meanings?

It doesn't. A meandering bureaucracy with a penchant for abusing the language does. At least they haven't replaced the word outright with an acronymic mouthful. Exactly what does "Objective Individual Combat Weapon" tell you that "rifle" doesn't?

[slapout9]

Exactly what does "Objective Individual Combat Weapon" tell you that "rifle" doesn't?

That one will cost about $35,000 dollars and the other one cost about $1,000 dollars.

[Presley Cannady]

Wait a minute -- Wilf is an intelligent guy and he served in the British Army. To give you a bit of credit, though, he has admitted in our marksmanship threads that when he was in the Royal Green Jackets he couldn't hit a barn even if he fired his rifle while he was inside of it.

Wilf is an original Babbage engine strapped to muzzle lathe that was unceremoniously pressed into service when Sir Smith-Dorrien ran out of doughboys who could shoot straight. He's certainly being modest.

[bourbon]

Assange is saying they are going to do another megaleak in early 2011, regarding a major US bank (internet speculation is Bank of America). I wouldn’t mind seeing some bankers get skewered, but another major bank tanking would have serious implications for us. Call me paranoid, but those looking for a foreign hand behind Wikileaks should consider this.

[AdamG]

Dynamic Network Services' subsidiary, EveryDNS.net, terminated the WikiLeaks.org domain name because repeated DDOS (Distributed Denial of Service) attacks against WikiLeaks "have, and future attacks would, threaten the stability of the EveryDNS.net infrastructure, which enables access to almost 500,000 other websites," it said on its website.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...g_service.html

LONDON – The law is closing in on Julian Assange. Swedish authorities won a court ruling Thursday in their bid to arrest the WikiLeaks founder for questioning in a rape case, British intelligence is said to know where in England he's hiding, and U.S. pundits and politicians are demanding he be hunted down or worse.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101202/...5vb3NldGlnaA--

[JMA]

A step-grandfather of mine was in the 17th London from 1915 to 1919. His battalion was a Rifle unit -- its cap badge resembled that of Rifle Brigade and included the campaign honor of "South Africa" on it. If you are unsure what that campaign was all about it would be better for you to go dig it for yourself. Remember what they say, Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Brit battle honours relating to South Africa are as follows:

South Africa 1846-47 ..... - Xhosa Wars
South Africa 1846-7 ...... - Xhosa Wars
South Africa 1851-53 ..... - Xhosa Wars
South Africa 1879 .... ..... - Anglo-Zulu War
South Africa 1899-1900 .. - Second Boer War
South Africa 1899-1902 .. - Second Boer War
South Africa 1900 .... ..... - Second Boer War
South Africa 1900-02 ..... - Second Boer War
South Africa 1900-1902 .. - Second Boer War

What battle honours in this regard the 17th London had I have no idea nor concern.

Going beyond those early South African wars my family served Queen and Country in the Great War and WW2. And by golly, me myself and I, openly supported the Brits in the Falklands while serving in the SADF (South African Defence Force) while the majority of Afrikaners (remembering the Boer War) were hoping the Argies would give them one "for old time sake".

... and if there was ever to be a re-run of 1775-1782 I would blindly support the "limeys".

All that said... does that mean the Brits are faultless? Does that mean the Brits can never be criticized? Of course not.

... yes (unlike large sections of some populations) the Brits do not read criticism as being unpatriotic or committing treason. The Brits have grown up and are waiting for others to catch up.

[JMA]

That one will cost about $35,000 dollars and the other one cost about $1,000 dollars.

... and with no guarantee that one will do the job better than the other...

[Presley Cannady]

Assange is saying they are going to do another megaleak in early 2011, regarding a major US bank (internet speculation is Bank of America). I wouldn’t mind seeing some bankers get skewered, but another major bank tanking would have serious implications for us. Call me paranoid, but those looking for a foreign hand behind Wikileaks should consider this.

Don't need a foreign actor to account for Wikileaks' scoops. The submission system is advertised and understood well enough to inspire confidence in anyone who stumbles across material and is looking to dump it with a reasonable expectation that the leak will never be tracked to them from the publisher's end.

To be honest, it's downright insulting that our intelligence community isn't making use of the same suite of technology (they aren't, trust me). It's free, secure as all hell, and pretty damned straightforward to stand up.

[omarali50]

omarali50:

I have a question. We all know how stupid the US elites are to swallow the GHQ nonsense, latest evidence being the leaks you are citing (I am taking your word for the content since I haven't read them). But since it takes two, how charming can the Pakistani elites be when they really turn it on? Do those guys practice and exchange tips on how to put one over on the Yankees? This is a serious question (sort of). Do they practice?

Carl, Actually I am not sure I would say the US elite is stupid. I think the system is bureaucratic and the people at the very top are dealing with too many things that they cannot possibly know in depth. Also, background assumptions about states and the third world are rather superficial and contaminated by both old-fashioned racism (less and less the case now I would guess) and elite University education (unfortunately, more and more the case now).
About Pak army's handling of the US, they are not super smart, but they do have an institutional memory of dealing with Americans since 1953. And being the far smaller and far weaker party, they have to make an effort to know how to to handle things. On the other hand, an American general can pretty much wing it on the basis of a few stereotyped notions and no one is going to tell him otherwise. Besides, its taxpayer money.
Having said that, I would again repeat that I would not call the Pak army's handling of the situation particularly smart. "smart" is of course a relative term and depends whose benefit you are focusing on. But as an institution, as Pakistani nationalists and as forward-looking human beings, they would have been far smarter to use the opportunity to move Pakistan into the modern world, get off their India obsession and learn to make money skimming off the increased trade and industry with India, China, Afghanistan and the rest of the world. A security-centric view, based on notions of eternal enmity with our largest and most important neighbour and close cooperation with the most dangerous and lunatic radicals in the islamic firmament is hardly "smart". I am not even saying they should roll over and obey every demand some visiting American makes. But keeping alive the jihadist fringe, using their rather capable propaganda arm to sow total confusion, establishing a self-defeating nationwide culture of hypocrisy and lies...all these are not "smart" moves.
But, just to throw in some additional nuance, I understand that the national civilian elite (especially the Punjabi elite) and the general population (in ways sometimes different from the ways of the elite) have their own very very serious issues and every problem is not created or caused by the army. But the army's smug arrogance about "we know better when it comes to national interest" has added to problems in ways they are not even trained to comprehend or notice, much less fix..

[jmm99]

each less than 20 pages.

THE ESPIONAGE ACT: A LOOK BACK AND A LOOK FORWARD
Hearing Before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary
Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security
Wednesday, May 12, 2010
Written Testimony of Stephen I. Vladeck
Professor of Law, American University Washington College of Law

Criminal Prohibitions on the Publication of Classified Defense Information
Congressional Research Service, R41404
Jennifer K. Elsea
Legislative Attorney
October 18, 2010

Cheers

Mike

[Pete]

Brit battle honours relating to South Africa ...

It was South Africa 1899 - 1902 to be exact. Grandfather said the army gave him a smelly rifle in calibre .303 during the Great War, whatever that means.

[JMA]

It was South Africa 1899 - 1902 to be exact. Grandfather said the army gave him a smelly rifle in calibre .303 during the Great War, whatever that means.

The "Great War" can only mean WW1 1914-18 and the "smelly rifle" could only be the SMLE (Short Magazine Lee Enfield).

[91bravojoe]

They found him. It was only a matter of time.

[JMA]

I keep an eye of the Wikileaks Twitter page and must admit to my discomfort at what I am learning from the US response to Wikileaks and Assange.

I never thought I would live to see the day when Pravda could justifiably criticise the US for its attempts to stifle a free press. Shocking.

Read Pravda article here.

It is the American people who should be outraged that its government has transformed a nation with a reputation for freedom, justice, tolerance and respect for human rights into a backwater that revels in its criminality, cover-ups, injustices and hypocrisies.

Now I am interested in learning what has turned (and how) the US population into a nation of sheeple seemingly as tame and conforming as the North Koreans. It's such a damn shame.

[Ken White]

I keep an eye of the Wikileaks Twitter page and must admit to my discomfort at what I am learning from the US response to Wikileaks and Assange.

What you are learning is that the response of US politicians and media are invariably over the top -- and stupid. Much like the politicians and media of other nations...

You've learned nothing and obviously know little about the broader US response.

I never thought I would live to see the day when Pravda could justifiably criticise the US for its attempts to stifle a free press. Shocking.

You missed it, they've been doing that for at least 50 years (We are not error free, they are also often over the top...). You also apparently missed the fact that Politicians worldwide have been trying to stifle the 'free' press for much longer than that.

Now I am interested in learning what has turned (and how) the US population into a nation of sheeple seemingly as tame and conforming as the North Koreans. It's such a damn shame.

What's the shame is unctuous posturing based on ignorance.

Lot of that about.

Most of the US could care less about Assange and Wikileaks -- 91BravoJoe's post above is indicative of the position of most of the US toward the whole batch of foolishness. The wise move on our part would have been to court martial Manning and say little or nothing about the Wikleak crowd. However, the political class is not capable of (a) punishing the guilty -- EVERYONE must suffer!

Or (b) not calling attention to the fact that "THEY" are doing something, by God!!!

Much ado about nothing. Do not confuse the very broad tolerance of the bulk of the US population for stupidity in Politicians and the news media for sheepleness. That's not at all what it happens to be.

[slapout9]

Most of the US could care less about Assange and Wikileaks -- 91BravoJoe's post above is indicative of the position of most of the US toward the whole batch of foolishness.

I heard the Doobie Brothers broke up, is that true?

[omarali50]

Ken, I agree one hundred percent...I am frequently critical of the political and intellectual elite in the US and less commonly, of some strange fashion that grips its generally stable people too, but its good to keep in mind "compared to what"? For all its faults, the US continues to be one of the saner countries in the world. I am told by friends that England is saner, and there are similar claims about some other North European nations, and I personally think Canada is the sanest major country on the planet, but that is about it....Which does not say a lot about the world..
For sentimental reasons, I also like to think that the mass of Punjab (and India in general) has historically been a fairly sane place, but that is probably a biased opinion and may not be easy to defend in argument.

[Ken White]

For all its faults, the US continues to be one of the saner countries in the world. I am told by friends that England is saner, and there are similar claims about some other North European nations, and I personally think Canada is the sanest major country on the planet, but that is about it....Which does not say a lot about the world.

All true. Winston had his faults but his comment: "You can always rely on the Americans to do the right thing -- after they have tried every conceivable alternative" is remarkably accurate. We too frequently do a lot of really dumb things in the process of sorting it out...

For sentimental reasons, I also like to think that the mass of Punjab (and India in general) has historically been a fairly sane place, but that is probably a biased opinion and may not be easy to defend in argument.

Well, I for one agree. There have been aberrations but then, no matter where, there always are.