Ivory Coast

[ganulv]

My position on how to deal with Gbagbo and the military units who support him has been clear from the beginning so I have no problem with the UN or the French or anyone firing on Gbagbo's palace or the military bases... but by doing so after allowing the Northern forces to cross the buffer zone first gives the impression that their actions are in support of the assault from the North. I therefore state that both the UN and the French are complicit in any war crimes committed by the northern forces after their unopposed crossing of the buffer zone.

I read their actions as simple pragmatism. Opposing the northern forces would have been a finger in the dyke; firing on the positions of the soon to be defeated side who were needlessly prolonging the fighting seems to be both a humanitarian move and a smart one in this context. How often do you see all those things go hand-in-hand?

[ganulv]

The AP photo below shows two members of the northern forces wearing what appear to be hunters’ shirts as they enter Abidjan. Hunters’ associations have played an important role throughout the Ivorian conflict.

[Stan]

– a checkpoint with half-dressed looking buzzards with FNs.

Similar to most African countries, the stats from the early 90s reflect some grandiose change that only later escalates in spite of all these so-called security measures and newly-formed extensions of the government.

There’s nothing mystical about an armed shakedown in the dark and most of the folks that were purportedly turned over to authorities were hardly thieves – rather political opposition that would be later “detained” under (fill in reason here).

Cheers for the insightful PM

[ganulv]

– a checkpoint with half-dressed looking buzzards with FNs.

Wow. That’s just… My grandfather who thinks the Voting Rights Act was a step in the wrong direction doesn’t say things like that. Are you so easily provoked that you make yourself look like a refugee from a Kipling novel just to get in a dig at me?

Hunters are by definition anti-social, dangerous, and skilled in the performance of violence (like, you know, soldiers can sometimes be) but I know people who credit them with their lives because of the protection they provided in the initial days of the Ivorian civil war. Calling two men you have never met buzzards leads me to believe you are an ignorant bigot.

[Stan]

Are you so easily provoked that you make yourself look like a refugee from a Kipling novel just to get in a dig at me? Or are you just an unobservant dimwit?

No dig on you, rather the poorly translated article from Jeune Afrique and the bogus stats from the early 90s. As far as these so-called hunters and their garb goes, the picture is typical of Africa and gave me a good chuckle

Hunters are by definition anti-social, dangerous, and skilled in the performance of violence (like, you know, soldiers can sometimes be) but I know people who credit them with their lives because of the protection they provided in the initial days of the Ivorian civil war.

All the hunters and soldiers I know are anti-government and generally very social. Perhaps you mean the African hunters ? I'm sure their physical and armed presence affected crime rates and I'm also very well aware of what they did and probably still do, especially during a civil war when one can always blame the act on the opposing military. I was personally saved by a Zairian buzzard but it wasn't his intent to do so and he wanted some sort of compensation to boot.

Calling two men you have never met buzzards leads me to believe you are an ignorant bigot. Or possibly just an ass of a human. Maybe both.

This is where I feel your lack of time in these places leads you to believe your reading of the events is dead on correct.

Not really a bigot, but have been accused of being an ass by my last three Xs

[Ken White]

I edited your post to remove the unnecessary verbiage, ganulv. You're new so this is a warning with no points assessed but the basic rule is attack the message and not the messenger. You're entitled to your opinion and you can certainly vent it to your monitor but try to avoid putting it in through the keyboard if it entails anything approaching name calling.

Ho, who knew Stan was awake...

So the beat cop can now go back to sleep. You guys be cool -- and my exes weren't nice enough to cal me an ass, there were other anatomical pats involved as I recall...

That would be parts. Can't spell right when asleep...

[M-A Lagrange]

Ok, let's have some anthropology to light our thoughts here.
Hunters in West Africa are a separate social class which most of the time is not really accepted in the villages. Just like the hunters in Canada during the 19th century.

They are skilled with violence: well their job is to hunt wild animals. They use generaly long barrel home made riffles and are therefore quite skilled. (Try to shoot with their guns without get a broken arm and hit the target Not really the same as with a modern semi automatic riffle).

In many wars like Liberia or Sierra Leone, they played an important role as village protectors and scouts. This due to their knowledge of the surrounding environment and to their ethnic group identity.

Finally, saying they are not sociable is an oriented comments as they are excluded from many communities as they are supposed to have magic skills and practice witchcraft.

And finally, i'm not that surprised, just as Stan, to see such troops on both sides. In Europ we had hunters regiments and if you take stricto sensus the mountain infantry, chasseur alpin, their name means hunters from the mountain top.

What we can be glad of is that there's no crazy Taylors boys or But Naked like troops on Ouattara side. Meeting a crazy rasta guy with a marriage dress because he is "dress to kill" (litteraly): that, it's f*&^*$g scary.

[Stan]

There’s nothing mystical about an armed shakedown in the dark and most of the folks that were purportedly turned over to authorities were hardly thieves – rather political opposition that would be later “detained” under (fill in reason here).

The United Nations mission in Ivory Coast (ONUCI) said on Saturday that traditional hunters known as Dozos fought alongside Ouattara's forces and took part in killing 330 people in the western town of Duekoue.

Then of course diplomatic regret and denial

"The government (Ouattara's) notes with regret that the allegations of the deputy chief of ONUCI human rights division are not supported by any evidence after its preliminary investigation," Ouattara's government said in a statement.

It also denied that Dozos were part of its forces.

[M-A Lagrange]

JMA:
I hate to say it and to admit it but Buffer zone, as humanitarian corridors in Yugoslavia are killing fields. Especially under UN protection.
UN troops are not commited and willing to do anything, they are too politicised to actually just do their job.

In a previous article, someone suggested that private contractors could do the work. Unfortunately I had to respond it would not be possible because of national pride and soverainty.
And that's the problem. When you ask a chiwawa to do a bulldog job: you end up with a bloody mess.

[JMA]

JMA:
I hate to say it and to admit it but Buffer zone, as humanitarian corridors in Yugoslavia are killing fields. Especially under UN protection.
UN troops are not commited and willing to do anything, they are too politicised to actually just do their job.

Yes indeed M-A and herein lies the problem. This inability to keep the peace in situations when the peace (or ceasefire) is really threatened makes such a UN interventions laughable.

For this and other reasons it is why I advocate as early and violent an intervention as possible once the culprit and his key supporters are identified beyond doubt to ensure they are "neutralised" swiftly and effectively.

In a previous article, someone suggested that private contractors could do the work. Unfortunately I had to respond it would not be possible because of national pride and soverainty.
And that's the problem. When you ask a chiwawa to do a bulldog job: you end up with a bloody mess.

There is certainly potential for the use of private contractors but I would suggest that this type of intervention should be limited to short duration exercises as such organisations would have serious problems maintaining discipline, among what would primarily be mercenaries, in the medium term.

[Dayuhan]

For this and other reasons it is why I advocate as early and violent an intervention as possible

By who?

There is certainly potential for the use of private contractors

Who hires them, and who pays them??

[JMA]

Then of course diplomatic regret and denial

I often ask myself which idiots believe these statements of denial? Gbagbo says this, Ouattara says that and even the stuff coming out of Gaddafi's Tripoli. Its all garbage. But there are those in every situation who just suck this stuff up...

[Backwards Observer]

Another take on the Ivory Coast situation:

As Cote d'Ivoire's bloody leadership contest draws to a close and the surrender of Laurent Gbagbo, the incumbent president, seems imminent, a long list of atrocities and electoral irregularities mark the records of both him and his opponent, Alassane Ouattara.

But with 1,500 people reported dead and more than 200,000 displaced, can one stubborn man be held solely responsible for the human cost of this four-month long dispute?

Ethan Zuckerman, the founder and editor of Global Voices, believes the situation is more complex than a one-man blame game.

"The challenge with the situation in Ivory Coast is that neither side has clean hands. Forces working for both have committed atrocities and, unfortunately, it's very hard to see how any resolution to the conflict will avoid further bloodshed, as both sides seek to settle scores."

Manufacturing Cote d'Ivoire's 'good guy' - Tendai Marima - AlJazeera - 7/4/11

***

Global Voices [Ethan Zuckerman Bio]
Rebecca MacKinnon and I founded Global Voices in 2005 when we were both fellows at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society. Initially, we'd planned to build an aggregator of blogs from around the developing world, based on my interest in Africa and her focus on China.

ethanzuckerman.com

Ethan Zuckerman is a senior researcher at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University. His research focuses on the distribution of attention in mainstream and new media, the use of technology for international development, and the use of new media technologies by activists. He and his team recently launched Media Cloud, an open-source platform for studying online media that enables quantitative analysis of media attention.

Ethan Zuckerman Profile - TED.com

[JMA]

Another take on the Ivory Coast situation:

Manufacturing Cote d'Ivoire's 'good guy' - Tendai Marima - AlJazeera - 7/4/11

It is certainly worth quoting the last two paragraphs of Marima's article.

In Ouattara's final transition from his luxury suite at the Hotel du Golf to the presidential palace, it is sincerely hoped that he can unite the country and restore peace. However, hard questions will need to be asked of him by seekers of truth and justice.

Despite the efforts by the media and international community to produce a clear-cut good guy, bad guy narrative for easy mass consumption, countless disturbing images and stories of violence perpetrated by rebel and patriot forces, show there are no clear lines distinguishing the righteous from the heathens. In war, all are sinners, even the guys with major international support.

The seekers of truth and justice will lose out in the end because almost nobody cares and most just want this problem to go away (which it won't). Ouattara could have come to power with some credibility if he had not had to resort to violence due dithering and hopeless incompetence by ECOWAS, the AU, the UN and the world community in general. Because of the fighting it will be largely back to square one. Another hopeless, basket case country. To think that this last bit could have been avoided. Pretty sad really.