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Thread: Ivory Coast

  1. #21
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    Default Ouattara's Diplomat warns of genocide

    Ivory Coast UN ambassador warns of genocide risk

    "We think it's unacceptable. Thus, one of the messages I try to get across during the conversations I have conducted so far, is [that] we are on the brink of genocide."

    Mr Bamba said some houses had been marked according to the residents' tribal background, and that he was concerned about what could happen next.
    I think this is an interesting claim, something that is either correct, or simply an attempt to link Ivory Coast to Rwanda?

  2. #22
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Default La vie en rose

    Hmmm, with the planned Ville Mort passing without participation (ala Zairois) and the UN threats postponed until 03 JAN, we now have...

    Renowned French lawyers come to Gbagbo's aid

    Two famous French lawyers -- one of them best known for defending Nazi Klaus Barbie -- came to Ivory Coast on Thursday to support isolated strongman Laurent Gbagbo.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  3. #23
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    Default I interviewed ...

    for the job, but my youth and inexperience cut against me. Rats !

    Cheers

    Mike

  4. #24
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    Default Background to the Ivory Coast

    There seems to be very poor understanding about the background to the current standoff in the Ivory Coast; and an even worse understanding of what 'intervention' means in the context of an African war. Perhaps these will add to the debate

    http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish...kes-Back.shtml

    http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish...d-Africa.shtml

  5. #25
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocnus View Post
    There seems to be very poor understanding about the background to the current standoff in the Ivory Coast; and an even worse understanding of what 'intervention' means in the context of an African war. Perhaps these will add to the debate

    http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish...kes-Back.shtml

    http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish...d-Africa.shtml
    Welcome aboard OCNUS !

    Sadly you've concluded we have a poor understanding of Africa and the current issues in the Republic of Côte d'Ivoire, but I assure you the members herein have decades of experience. I would recommend a brief read where this thread started instead of starting your own.

    Thanks in advance, Stan
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  6. #26
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    Default Background to the Ivory Coast

    I apologise for my rudeness. I was not referring to the SWC but to the 'international community' in general with whom I feel a sense of frustration.

  7. #27
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ocnus View Post
    I apologise for my rudeness. I was not referring to the SWC but to the 'international community' in general with whom I feel a sense of frustration.
    Accepted, just realize the Council has some "real" subject matter experts with both muddy boots experience and academic credentials. And there are those like Stan who have been there, done it; and can't stop being there, doing it.

  8. #28
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Hey again OCNUS,
    Took a peek at your links and ... I don't know what to say.

    Exactly what is different about Cote d'ivoire from say any other African State in Sub-Sahara ?

    Sorry, but you've got it in for the French (or what?). Wait til M-A wakes up in Sudan tonite

    BTW, remember the AK47 ? Please check your records on the weapons in Sub-Sahara. These were not procured from France.

    I'd love to see some of your creative writing RE the Chinese in Africa; might just clear up a few things regarding weapons and procurement.

    Regards, Stan

    In summary, the colonial pact maintained the French control over the economies of the African states; it took possession of their foreign currency reserves; it controlled the strategic raw materials of the country; it stationed troops in the country with the right of free passage; it demanded that all military equipment be acquired from France; it took over the training of the police and army; it required that French businesses be allowed to maintain monopoly enterprises in key areas (water, electricity, ports, transport, energy, etc.). It is difficult to imagine what the changes were from colonial rule to today that aren't merely cosmetic.
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  9. #29
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Thread locked

    I have locked this thread, please use the main existing thread on the Ivory Coast:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=11943
    davidbfpo

  10. #30
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    I'm very much a proponent of intervention on humanitarian grounds / R2P. I'd like to see someone step up and do something in this case, because like most of the rest of the dog's breakfast that is Africa, this seems to have serious potential to quickly explode into a humanitarian catastrophe.

    I'm concerned that there may be no parties with all three of the requisites of *efficacy*; the will, means, and credibility to do this. Most of the Anglophone countries won't give a fart about C. d'I. France typically is very self interested in these instances, and I doubt their intervention will extend much past protecting their own citizens. France is increasingly unstable politically, and any domestic perception that France is again engaging in colonial games (accurate or not) will inflame other problems they have.

    A coterie of other African nations would likely have the greatest *credibility* in intervening, but frankly I've no trust that a sufficient proportion of them would be operating in good faith, and the professionalism of those forces is in doubt. I've no doubt that they would be willing to use violence to get their way, but probably to such an extreme that the credibility of the intervention would be affected- the other side of the pendulum swing from our (colective western) failure in Rwanda.

    It would be great to see Africans sorting out Africa with some westerners helping out (comms, logistics, some boots on the ground, etc), but frankly I've lost most of my optimism about the continent's ability to handle its own affairs effectively... I fear that we're going to get to sit on the sidelines of something awful again, and our respective governments will collectively wring their hands and ask imploringly why somebody doesn't do something?

    When people are fleeing *to* Liberia, things are pretty bad.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brihard View Post
    ... I fear that we're going to get to sit on the sidelines of something awful again, and our respective governments will collectively wring their hands and ask imploringly why somebody doesn't do something
    Sadly the time for preemptive action has almost past...

    Last edited by JMA; 01-01-2011 at 08:14 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    Sadly the time for preemptive action has almost past...
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
    http://www.online-literature.com/poe/36/
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


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  13. #33
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    Default That was supposed to state precedent in Sudan.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    Sadly the time for preemptive action has almost past...

    It's kind of a big thing. Focus on the Referendum on the Southern Succession January 9th. See this overshadow the coming split in Nigeria and CAR. Draw a line in the sand so to speak.

    Besides, we froze dudes bank account in the Ivory Coast and grounded his plane. No cash, just bullets. So he is trying to ramp up some cross fire to escape? Ha!

  14. #34
    Council Member Dayuhan's Avatar
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    I sometimes wonder why people ask "why doesn't somebody do something" when they really mean "why don't the Americans do something".

    Fiddling while Rome burns is indeed silly... if you're Roman, or the emperor of Rome. Last I looked the US was not the emperor of the Ivory Coast.

  15. #35
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    I may have spoken precipitously on Anglophone nations ignoring the situations...

    Britain is now stating that it would support an intervention on a U.N. mandate, thought here's nothing specifying whether Britain has expressed any intent to provide material support, nor any differentiation between responses to a Chapter 6 v Chapter 7 mandate- the latter would seem to me to be necessary.

    The rhetoric is ramping up too. Gbagbo is now accusing the U.N. of having fired on civilians, and is insisting U.N. forces leave.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brihard View Post
    I may have spoken precipitously on Anglophone nations ignoring the situations...

    The rhetoric is ramping up too. Gbagbo is now accusing the U.N. of having fired on civilians, and is insisting U.N. forces leave.
    He is the one that has the private security forces that are trigger happy and will not get paid.

  17. #37
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    Default Ivory Coast

    I suspect that Goodluck Johnathan in Nigeria has little appetite any longer for imposing the West's solution to cure African election problems with violence after the recent bombings of the military barracks in Abuja. The election battle in Nigeria is fast becoming a mirror of the Ivoirian, pitting a Muslim North against a Christian South. I think you might be surprised to find that there are several African governments, led by Angola, who may be willing to make money available to Gbagbo until he can get back the assets frozen by the French. Gbagbo doesn't have to do very much to stay in power. His power is strong in the South and, if he can escape the clutches of the West trying to freeze his assets, he has no reason to change his course, Ouattara is stuck in enemy territory and kept in business by the UN. Soon, after the Sudan elections and other upcoming events in Africa, the UN will lose interest in forcing an indigestible solution on an intractable problem.

  18. #38
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brihard View Post
    I may have spoken precipitously on Anglophone nations ignoring the situations...

    Britain is now stating that it would support an intervention on a U.N. mandate, thought here's nothing specifying whether Britain has expressed any intent to provide material support, nor any differentiation between responses to a Chapter 6 v Chapter 7 mandate- the latter would seem to me to be necessary.

    The rhetoric is ramping up too. Gbagbo is now accusing the U.N. of having fired on civilians, and is insisting U.N. forces leave.

    Actually, what I like with the brits in africa is that if they push for a military intervention: they do not want to send troops. So if they say they want to participate, it's almost certain it will not happen.

    Concernng the problematic of Muslim and Christians raised by OCNUS, it is true that the situation ischanging at the momment. There is a strong anti muslim push in sub-saharian africa at the momment. Just as there is a strong muslim push which coincide with the long term presence of Pakistany troops in man UN missions. (who said they did train some stupid idiotic armed groups leaders????).
    But I remain septic on the capacity of Nigeria to play the lone ranger and fox up even US interrest.

    By the way, the French are the one who did conduct most of the military interventions in Africa. The last US military (official) presence in africa lead to a Hollywood movie and I'm not sure that will happen again before long time.
    Nt saying it should happen butI do think that there is room for a sub-saharian african power... let say South africa...

  19. #39
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    This is one of the best opportunities for the African Union to involve itself in resolving this crisis. ECOWAS could always involve troops from the rest of Africa, with French logistical support, to force Gbagbo out of power. One of the personally interesting points for me is whether ECOWAS would try to initiate a ceasefire or actively support Outtuara's side in any future conflict?

  20. #40
    Council Member M-A Lagrange's Avatar
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    Bagbo seems to have made a huge mistake:
    Lanny Davis the pro US lobbyist resigned because Bagbo has refused to take a phone call from the White House and supposedly from the President him self.

    Link in French:
    http://fr.news.yahoo.com/69/20110101...d-b11dcaf.html

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