Ivory Coast

[M-A Lagrange]

Gbagbo residence has been taken by Outtara troops.
The UN opened fire with attarck helicopters on the Gbagbo troops camp in Abidjan.
Ban KinMoon sent a letter asking the French president to help the UN by destroying Gbagbo heavy artillery as Gbagbo is using it to bombard civilian population.

Let's face it: It's over! Outtara has won, the right has won and it's not the speaches of lost US politicians who have no clue on what is going on in Ivory Coast that will change what ever.

[JMA]

Let's face it: It's over! Outtara has won, the right has won and it's not the speaches of lost US politicians who have no clue on what is going on in Ivory Coast that will change what ever.

What's over?

Quattara won in November but now through the actions of his forces (certainly with his knowledge - as that is the way "wars" are fought in Africa) he has now become yet another thug "war crimes" perpetrator soon to be masquerading as a head of state. He will be welcomed in the AU club as one of their own.

No, the US can't pick up the blame for this one. There has been a UN peacekeeping force on the ground since the civil war and that was the in place mechanism to use to sort the problem out. It was only last week that in UNSC 1975 (?) they were given the authority to use whatever means necessary to protect civilians. Did they ask for more troops to protect the civilian population? No. What the French did was send more troops and take over the airport as a means to protect European civilians (EU) and possibly by request the Lebanese but not a care about the Ivorian civilians.

Now we see the UN firing on the Gbagbo forces after the Northern forces had crossed the buffer zone and the body count of forces and civilian men women and children started to rise on both sides.

The UN has failed to secure the buffer zone and thereby protect Ivorian civilians. The French must share some responsibility for this.

My position on how to deal with Gbagbo and the military units who support him has been clear from the beginning so I have no problem with the UN or the French or anyone firing on Gbagbo's palace or the military bases... but by doing so after allowing the Northern forces to cross the buffer zone first gives the impression that their actions are in support of the assault from the North. I therefore state that both the UN and the French are complicit in any war crimes committed by the northern forces after their unopposed crossing of the buffer zone.

As per African war fighting tradition it is after one of the armed factions runs away that the really bad stuff happens in terms of crimes against civilians who are of the wrong tribe or religion or dared to support the loser. Lets see how the UN and the French handle this side of the conflict.

[M-A Lagrange]

Gbagbo is negociating his evacuation according to reuters: it's over... It was over in November but it took a military action to have it concretised...

The Russian are calling for an emergency Security Council to question the action of ONUCI which used force against Gbagbo. This was certainly done with the agreement of 3 of the UNSC. Apparently Russia might be affraid to have lost its influence over African affairs... Let's wait and see.

JMA: please do not try to blame the west all the time over war crimes. It's not the French troops who did that.

[ganulv]

My position on how to deal with Gbagbo and the military units who support him has been clear from the beginning so I have no problem with the UN or the French or anyone firing on Gbagbo's palace or the military bases... but by doing so after allowing the Northern forces to cross the buffer zone first gives the impression that their actions are in support of the assault from the North. I therefore state that both the UN and the French are complicit in any war crimes committed by the northern forces after their unopposed crossing of the buffer zone.

I read their actions as simple pragmatism. Opposing the northern forces would have been a finger in the dyke; firing on the positions of the soon to be defeated side who were needlessly prolonging the fighting seems to be both a humanitarian move and a smart one in this context. How often do you see all those things go hand-in-hand?

[ganulv]

The AP photo below shows two members of the northern forces wearing what appear to be hunters’ shirts as they enter Abidjan. Hunters’ associations have played an important role throughout the Ivorian conflict.

[Stan]

– a checkpoint with half-dressed looking buzzards with FNs.

Similar to most African countries, the stats from the early 90s reflect some grandiose change that only later escalates in spite of all these so-called security measures and newly-formed extensions of the government.

There’s nothing mystical about an armed shakedown in the dark and most of the folks that were purportedly turned over to authorities were hardly thieves – rather political opposition that would be later “detained” under (fill in reason here).

Cheers for the insightful PM

[ganulv]

– a checkpoint with half-dressed looking buzzards with FNs.

Wow. That’s just… My grandfather who thinks the Voting Rights Act was a step in the wrong direction doesn’t say things like that. Are you so easily provoked that you make yourself look like a refugee from a Kipling novel just to get in a dig at me?

Hunters are by definition anti-social, dangerous, and skilled in the performance of violence (like, you know, soldiers can sometimes be) but I know people who credit them with their lives because of the protection they provided in the initial days of the Ivorian civil war. Calling two men you have never met buzzards leads me to believe you are an ignorant bigot.

[Stan]

Are you so easily provoked that you make yourself look like a refugee from a Kipling novel just to get in a dig at me? Or are you just an unobservant dimwit?

No dig on you, rather the poorly translated article from Jeune Afrique and the bogus stats from the early 90s. As far as these so-called hunters and their garb goes, the picture is typical of Africa and gave me a good chuckle

Hunters are by definition anti-social, dangerous, and skilled in the performance of violence (like, you know, soldiers can sometimes be) but I know people who credit them with their lives because of the protection they provided in the initial days of the Ivorian civil war.

All the hunters and soldiers I know are anti-government and generally very social. Perhaps you mean the African hunters ? I'm sure their physical and armed presence affected crime rates and I'm also very well aware of what they did and probably still do, especially during a civil war when one can always blame the act on the opposing military. I was personally saved by a Zairian buzzard but it wasn't his intent to do so and he wanted some sort of compensation to boot.

Calling two men you have never met buzzards leads me to believe you are an ignorant bigot. Or possibly just an ass of a human. Maybe both.

This is where I feel your lack of time in these places leads you to believe your reading of the events is dead on correct.

Not really a bigot, but have been accused of being an ass by my last three Xs

[Ken White]

I edited your post to remove the unnecessary verbiage, ganulv. You're new so this is a warning with no points assessed but the basic rule is attack the message and not the messenger. You're entitled to your opinion and you can certainly vent it to your monitor but try to avoid putting it in through the keyboard if it entails anything approaching name calling.

Ho, who knew Stan was awake...

So the beat cop can now go back to sleep. You guys be cool -- and my exes weren't nice enough to cal me an ass, there were other anatomical pats involved as I recall...

That would be parts. Can't spell right when asleep...

[M-A Lagrange]

Ok, let's have some anthropology to light our thoughts here.
Hunters in West Africa are a separate social class which most of the time is not really accepted in the villages. Just like the hunters in Canada during the 19th century.

They are skilled with violence: well their job is to hunt wild animals. They use generaly long barrel home made riffles and are therefore quite skilled. (Try to shoot with their guns without get a broken arm and hit the target Not really the same as with a modern semi automatic riffle).

In many wars like Liberia or Sierra Leone, they played an important role as village protectors and scouts. This due to their knowledge of the surrounding environment and to their ethnic group identity.

Finally, saying they are not sociable is an oriented comments as they are excluded from many communities as they are supposed to have magic skills and practice witchcraft.

And finally, i'm not that surprised, just as Stan, to see such troops on both sides. In Europ we had hunters regiments and if you take stricto sensus the mountain infantry, chasseur alpin, their name means hunters from the mountain top.

What we can be glad of is that there's no crazy Taylors boys or But Naked like troops on Ouattara side. Meeting a crazy rasta guy with a marriage dress because he is "dress to kill" (litteraly): that, it's f*&^*$g scary.

[JMA]

Gbagbo is negociating his evacuation according to reuters: it's over... It was over in November but it took a military action to have it concretised...

That they (the northern forces) can't get this guy out of a bunker tells you what?

The Russian are calling for an emergency Security Council to question the action of ONUCI which used force against Gbagbo. This was certainly done with the agreement of 3 of the UNSC. Apparently Russia might be affraid to have lost its influence over African affairs... Let's wait and see.

The Russians (correctly) sense US (political) weakness and want to step in and take advantage of this current situation. Understandable. Made and idiot of themselves by claiming civilian causalities a few weeks ago, but they will learn as they go along.

JMA: please do not try to blame the west all the time over war crimes. It's not the French troops who did that.

All the time?

OK, lets start here. What was the aim of the buffer zone across the country? What were the duties and the responsibilities on the UN peacekeepers in that regard? Was the crossing of the buffer zone by an armed force from the North a breach of the ceasefire or what? ... we can go on.

The post election situation in Ivory Coast has been hopelessly incompetently handled. Another in a long line of case studies in how to (at great UN expense over a number of years) contribute rather to heightened internal tensions and violence through incompetence than to contribute to longer term stability in the country and by implication the region.

[Dayuhan]

The Russians (correctly) sense US (political) weakness and want to step in and take advantage of this current situation.

How does staying out of a situation that is clearly none of our business and not even peripherally related to our interests constitute "weakness"?

[Stan]

How does staying out of a situation that is clearly none of our business and not even peripherally related to our interests constitute "weakness"?

I think JMA meant what the Russian's view as "implied weakness" via our inaction. Not that their current knee-jerking reactions are anything to write home about

[Stan]

OK, lets start here. What was the aim of the buffer zone across the country? What were the duties and the responsibilities on the UN peacekeepers in that regard? Was the crossing of the buffer zone by an armed force from the North a breach of the ceasefire or what? ... we can go on.

Hmmm, is that why we call it a demilitarized zone

[Stan]

There’s nothing mystical about an armed shakedown in the dark and most of the folks that were purportedly turned over to authorities were hardly thieves – rather political opposition that would be later “detained” under (fill in reason here).

The United Nations mission in Ivory Coast (ONUCI) said on Saturday that traditional hunters known as Dozos fought alongside Ouattara's forces and took part in killing 330 people in the western town of Duekoue.

Then of course diplomatic regret and denial

"The government (Ouattara's) notes with regret that the allegations of the deputy chief of ONUCI human rights division are not supported by any evidence after its preliminary investigation," Ouattara's government said in a statement.

It also denied that Dozos were part of its forces.

[M-A Lagrange]

JMA:
I hate to say it and to admit it but Buffer zone, as humanitarian corridors in Yugoslavia are killing fields. Especially under UN protection.
UN troops are not commited and willing to do anything, they are too politicised to actually just do their job.

In a previous article, someone suggested that private contractors could do the work. Unfortunately I had to respond it would not be possible because of national pride and soverainty.
And that's the problem. When you ask a chiwawa to do a bulldog job: you end up with a bloody mess.

[jmm99]

now we are moving into comparative anthropology of present-day West African hunters with 19th century Canadian hunters ....

from MAL
Ok, let's have some anthropology to light our thoughts here.
Hunters in West Africa are a separate social class which most of the time is not really accepted in the villages. Just like the hunters in Canada during the 19th century.

The 19th century (and earlier 18th and 17th century) Canadian hunters - whether Indian, French or Métis - were very much accepted in their villages. And, for good reason, because the basic hunters were the primary means of the villagers' survival, and the voyageurs of the fur trade provided whatever equity the villagers possessed.

To the extent that French Canada had separate social classes in the villages, the "hunters" were likely to play leadership roles; and to be as involved in trade and commerce, even though usually being capable in close encounters with man and beast - e.g., this 19th century "hunter", François-Xavier Aubry, my great-grandfather's 2nd cousin:

Héros de la guerre de Sécession, le général Williams Sherman, chef des armées de l’Union (nord) qui a connu Aubry au Missouri et en Californie déclare: «Aubry était le meilleur exemple de cette belle race d’hommes courageux et audacieux qui ont grandi dans les plaines». Bergeron, René, F.X. Aubry, 1824-1854, p. 197.

So, hail the beaver "hunter":



Bonne chance & Regards (from me and my Canadian canoe paddling ancestors and relatives)



Mike

[Dayuhan]

I think JMA meant what the Russian's view as "implied weakness" via our inaction. Not that their current knee-jerking reactions are anything to write home about

Knee-jerking is an old Russian tradition, and I don't think anyone's terribly worried about it.

They might of course see our reluctance to get involved as "implied sanity"... a very peripheral implication to be sure, given events elsewhere, but a step in the right direction. I'm sure they'd love to see us buried in as many quagmires as possible, draining blood and treasure with no gain to ourselves, but I see no special reason to indulge them.

[tequila]

Who's response for the Duekoue killings? - IRIN

... According to reports by the International Committee of the Red Cross and other aid agencies at least 800 people were killed in the Duékoué fighting. While details are sketchy, most victims appear to have been from the local Guéré community, traditionally Gbagbo supporters.

Some Duékoué residents contacted by IRIN blamed the killings on farmers living in encampments outside Duékoué - on land they have worked for decades - whom the Guéré have sought to oust since Gbagbo’s arrival in power.

Gbagbo sought to annul land leases to Burkinabé, Baoulé and other groups working the coffee and cocoa plantations, in favour of previous Guéré owners and their descendants. “These killings were a settling of scores,” one Guéré man said. “People came and killed the [mainly Wobé and Guéré] landowners.” Residents said people came to the town after the FRCI, armed primarily with hunting rifles and machetes ...

Most of the killings reportedly were in the Carréfour neighbourhood - known as a base for pro-Gbagbo militia. Residents said the militia had fled and innocent civilians were left behind. “[Groups who work the land] are taking advantage of the presence of the FRCI to eliminate as many [locals] as possible in order to control the land,” said one of the thousands of residents who have sought refuge at the Catholic mission in Duékoué.

Residents said all homes in Carréfour were burned and homes in other neighbourhoods pillaged.

Residents of Duékoué said two days after the killings the new FRCI authorities sent a griot - a traditional West African poet, musician and storyteller - through the town calling for calm, urging people to return to their normal activities and stressing the town was now secure. But the griot also passed on strong warnings: “Anyone found armed but not belonging to the FRCI will be disarmed. Anyone caught stealing will be killed, without exception.”

...

In June 2005 dozens of mainly Guéré villagers were attacked in night raids on two nearby villages, Petit Duékoué and Guitrozon. Houses were set ablaze and men, women and children hacked to death. Some accused the Dozo, traditional hunter warriors attached to the Malinké community and seen by many as proxy soldiers for the rebels - accusations that have resurfaced after the recent killings ...

[M-A Lagrange]

Mike,

I hope I did not offense you. My comparaison is strictly limited to the fact that they represent a separate social group. Nothing mor, canadian hunters from the 19th and actual west african hunters have nothing else in common.

Tequila:

If you want to find why people fight for in Africa, just look at who owns the land. It's always the roots of the conflict.