Gentlemen,
Thanks for the info. I've been lurking for quite a while soaking up all the information. I'm deploying to Afghanistan this fall with a Marine Inf Bn. En Shallah I'll be a rifle Co Cmdr.
If you all are good with it I'll pass this info on to other EWS students who are so interested.
Thanks again,
Pete
Infanteer,
I sent you a pm with my .mil address if you could pass on your unit's shura info it would be appreciated.
EPA, I'll dig up the KLE SOP I drafted for the battalion and send it your way if you can PM me with a .mil address. Take from it what works and discard the rest, but it remains the document that I referenced for the task of handling shuras and KLE.
Lots of good stuff here. I'll add one thing: watch Restrepo. The Company Commander provides an excellent example of how not to act in a shura.
Not necessarily, but it depends on which shura you are talking about.Originally Posted by Xenophon
If you mean the one where the local men come to ask about one of the men previously detained, I agree only inasmuch as he could have had a cooler head and refrained from profanity when he was talking to the soldier off camera. As for his other stern responses during that meeting, well, sometimes that is exactly what is needed, as the locals can easily try to push the coalition side around.
How would you have gone after the issue?
It's totally a cultural thing, but our opposites often came across as prone to nagging...sometimes they need a raised voice to get them to stop nagging.
I think he did everything consciously and with a purpose, which is all I might ever ask for from someone representing the coalition. if there was a different shura that you're referencing, I might not be orienting on on the right one.
Now that I think of it, i think the married guys among us handled the worst of the shuras fairly well, once they remembered to disconnect themselves from the topic and nod their head occasionally or scribble a note every now and then. Feigning interest, in a fashion not all that unlike listening to your significant other, is an acquired skill.
Best COIN KLE skill ever.Feigning interest, in a fashion not all that unlike listening to your significant other, is an acquired skill.
Looking forward to this SOP.
Tankersteve
I wrote an article on this
I wrote an article on this topic, and attached to it advice on Information Operations and using an interpreter. It was Afghanistan specific. Infantry Magazine published it, but it is easier just to follow the link to my blog at the end.
Even better than my ramblings is the bibliography I included at the end. One of the articles I mentioned specifically mentions negotiating in shuras and is very much along the lines of jcustis's initial advice.
I will say profanity and yelling should never enter a shura. Ever. Even after multiple attacks in your AO with a strong suspicion a village knows about it. Why? Because yelling is bad in American culture, and worse in Pashtun culture. Can you imagine a board meeting that ended up with one side yelling at everyone? Or a city council meeting where a foreigner came in and berated the board? I can, but in each case it would be a bad thing. Yelling--from either side--is usually a sign of superiority and a sign of division. It is a sign that that is a dysfunctional group. For instance, think of congress when a bunch of members are yelling at each other, that is a sign that not much is getting accomplished. If you have to yell at local Afghans you probably lost control. (Much like everyone has that boss who yells and screams, and everyone thinks he is a sucky boss.)
I bring this up because on more than one occasion I have heard Soldiers or Officers above me specifically point to the "yell at the elders" TTP as an effective shura strategy.
Nice Discussion
I am curious if you guys have used the CIDNE data base, just got started in theater in 08. KLE is one of the datafields, it allows you to see who was talked to and what was promised by the last guy visiting the village. It helps to avoid that "Where's my well" faceshot on your first sit down. I would also love to see your units TTP on KLE. It might be worth adding it as a module of instruction to our course.
I definitely agree that sometime you need to be firm. He wasn't firm, he acted firm. But his voice cracked with frustration. He didn't bother to learn the names of the people he wanted to talk to the Afghans about. His disgust with the Afghans and his lack of confidence shown through his facade like a WP round. If I picked up on it, the Afghans sure did.
But, I may have been biased against him from the start. In the first interview piece with him in the movie, he said something to the effect of, "I didn't bother to study the Korengal or read anything about the AO before we got there, I didn't think it was important."
Disgusting. Especially from a company commander. The First Sergeant seemed on point though.
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