Don't Get Caught!, or How US Navy Capt. Owen Honors Learned About Filmmaking

[Ken White]

Fuchs and Brihard that is...

How some can decry 'risk aversion' and 'group think' as well as complain of excessive demands for conformity and stultifying superiors in the Armed Forces and then castigate anyone who dares to be a bit different is mind boggling.

Many former crew members have defended the videos as have some teaching merit. As Brihard says, a LOT of training material sucks -- he's obviously a master of understatement -- and as many know, leadership is half showmanship.

My guess is the Navy has just relieved a potentially great combat commander for little reason. Were some people upset? Sure. Justifiably? Equally sure, based on their perspective. Others -- apparently many more others -- were not upset. No way to please everyone, never has been or will be.

This is all much ado about excessive political correctness and most of that ado misses the point that war, combat and the folks who engage in those things are about as politically incorrect as one can be. Yes, "result-getters" get some slack and there are many historical and good reasons for that.

Change that (more than we already have, which is a great deal...) and there will be a cost...

[Rick Bennett]

One of the quotes about rationale for these types of films was to relieve the stress of the extended deployment, and I would gather from the sympathy it garners in the civilian press there are folks who say that the rest of the world just doesn't understand. However, I would ask the purveyors of the film if they have experienced the stress of the recruiter in the living room of middle America?
I would like to think the last ever deployment of a USN CVBG will be a successful one but I would shudder to think that the price of a successful USN CVBG deployment is that is would be the last one ever.

[Pete]

During the early 1970s the U.S. Army toned down the content its preventive maintenance comic book-style periodical PS Magazine in response to criticism from the feminist community. Connie Rodd was given smaller breasts and much of the innuendo was deleted.

[DVC]

I'd prefer my son not to serve on a ship where the XO produced these sorts of lewd videos. Then again as an army guy, I don't want him to serve on a ship period.

On the otherhand, given some of the jackwagons that reach senior levels of leadership, I'd much rather have a captain who produces bad taste videos and can fight and lead than some P.C. incompetent.

To relieve an otherwise competent officer for this is a travesty. Counsel behind closed doors maybe. Relieve NO.

What I find ironic is it seems the same crowd that wants CAPT Honors cashiered for this, is all for showing this same type of lewdness and vulgarity to children in the form of prime time television shows. At least being underway on the Enterprise guarantees it was received by an adult only audience.

[selil]

Warning: Over the top conspiracy theory

Is the relief of Capt. Honors, a TAT-for-tat (Pentagon politics) for the relief and refusal to promote Capt. Holly Graff?

[Ken White]

...However, I would ask the purveyors of the film if they have experienced the stress of the recruiter in the living room of middle America?

middle America is several orders of magnitude less concerned by this than are some on the coasts.

As for Recruiting, bad taste videos aren't nearly as deleterious as are mediocre leaders...

[Billy Ruffian]

I feel a little bad about the fact that an otherwise promising officer had his career cut short over this issue, however it speaks to nature of our 'information society' these days. In an era of multiple media platforms and multiple access points, putting anything down in video, audio or paper pretty much guarantees that it will be sent around the planet at least twice.

The downside to this is that every action becomes a potential media focus point, which adds extra importance to methods and standards of professional conduct as mentioned by those above.

Again, it's sad that an otherwise promising individual has now been denied the opportunity to fully realize his potential in armed service, and I have always felt personally that a little lewdness helps maintain some steel in the spines of military men and women.

Perhaps everyone, not just soldiers, sailors and airmen/women should internalize the 60 minute rule. Whenever you act unprofessionally, you can guarantee that within 60 minutes that a video of that will be up on youtube.

[Pete]

Discussion in this thread involves different different issues and moral values that shouldn't be conflated with each other. One has to do with personnel and what it takes to be an effective military leader; the other involves how the military services now believe they should handle a public relations crisis before it gets out of hand.

As regards the latter, instead of halfhearted measures at the outset it is now seen as being better for DoD to sacrafice the perpetrator before the situation gets worse. That's instead of letting inadequate responses to these high-profile situations allow these news stories to grow legs and go on for days on end before DoD finally gets around to bayonetting the guy. It may be cynical and hypocritical, but once you have seriously embarrassed your bosses you're history. Not much about the military service has really changed -- in the pre-PC days pissing off a colonel or general was all it took.

[Pete]

By and large the U.S. public has two different norms of behavior governing armed conflict -- one is for all-out war for national survival and the other is for peacetime and optional conflicts. Under the first one it's a case of "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" and under the second it's the Marquess of Queensberry rules. The uniformed military make no such distinctions and its leaders are frequently surprised when some incident reported in the news puts the two into conflict with each other.

[Ken White]

By and large the U.S. public has two different norms of behavior governing armed conflict...

Not the public. They're broadly similar to Joe in their attitudes.

Just the media and the self anointed pseudo-sophisticates of the nominal intelligentsia.

[DVC]

Not the public. They're broadly similar to Joe in their attitudes.

Just the media and the self anointed pseudo-sophisticates of the nominal intelligentsia.

Well put.

[J Wolfsberger]

... nominal intelligentsia.

I think we are now referring to them as the "Credentialed Class." As in, lots of fancy pieces of paper, but none of the abilities the paper ought to represent. And, apparently, with too much free time on their hands ...