Intel Trooper cuts to the gist concisely, thanks for the confirmation (1) and shared opinion (2).

jcustis Thanks, Jon. I suspected as much -- the qualities of the Commander in this technique, as in most others, make a tremendous difference. Curiously, we know that but do not really select for it...

82redlegI'm sure it isn't completely accurate, that's why I asked the question -- to get some accuracy. What in your opinion should be changed?

You are correct as far as I know in you statement that whoever owned an AO has been responsible for it. However, this owner thing has three aspects. First and basically -- should there be such a thing as an AO in this kind of war? Don't reject it automatically, please give it some thought. If you say there should be, fine, then consider whether an AO and a 'Battlespace' are the same thing and if they are, consider which term is most appropriate, flexible and accurate .

Second, as jmm says below, 'ownership' means different things to different people. I do not question allocation of responsibility for 'battle space' or a Zone, Sector, AO, TAOR or whatever we'll decide to call it next year. I do question the terminology in total and very particularly the 'ownership' aspect-- as the old Gen-Gen said, 'words are important.' Our doctrinal Command processes and procedures have been worked out over a long time. They work. Ad Hocery is often necessary in combat but it can also get out of control. Not to mention that we are not occupation troops. Afghanistan IS a sovereign nation...

Thirdly and the most important reason for my question, I understand the need to prevent fratricide, aid in battle tracking, and assist the moving units in case they need QRF, etc. This:
I guess that I am of the opinion that the more control we give to the guy that is in the AO day-in/day-out, and responsible for what happens there, the better. Letting transient units, of whatever type (logistics, SOF, whatever) operate without coordinating with the guy in charge seems like a bad thing to me.
I also agree with. That doesn't address two things; coordination or being under control or de facto command? I totally agree with the former but have heard that some insist on the latter -- which I emphatically do not agree with.

Plus the "exceptions" I mentioned of which I understand SOF/SF is just on example -- who determines those that are valid and those that are not? The important reason -- is the 'ownership' of space militarily sound and should the concept be incorporated in changes to our C2 doctrine. If the answer to that is 'no,' then we shouldn't be using it today.

A point on the reconstruction and / or aid and support in an AO. Should the unit preparing to battle in a battle space even be involved in that other than peripherally? I understand that's the way it's being done -- I have operated in that mode but I also have operated in very different approaches that allowed units to concentrate on the military aspects while others handled aid and such. I fully understand where we are with all that now; again, my question is for the future -- should it be that way?

sullygoarmyI can identify with the many frustrations of having another Nation being the real 'battlespace owner.'

I think that your lack of OpCon over transiting units is important and is correct. Things can happen locally that you could not control while the man on the ground could. We really don't do as well at trusting each other as we should...

That really gets to the crux of my tertiary concern -- is it possible for the Battle Space Owner (hereafter BSO) to take the term to heart and attempt to exercise control where he or she should not? Before anyone says "what's this she bit?" there could an MI Bde tabbed to be the BSO. Unlikely and illogical but could happen. I can see the potential for both conflict and unknowing directions to transiting or other units.

I appreciate your SOF specific comments. My sensing was and is that what you describes as the change is taking place everywhere -- and that' better for everyone. The last thing we need is distrust between each other...

Bob's World:
Personally, I think we need to evolve from traditional concepts rooted in Physical Battle Space, and adopt more effective constructs that take into account "functional battle space" as well.
Totally agree and that is a big part of my concern and an unstated reason for the question; that and the potential to focus excessively on geography and 'control' (to avoid unpleasant surprises from own side and echelons above reality) as opposed to focusing on the reason one is there.
In general though the BSO is left holding the bag and is always left responsible for whatever the SOF guys break (and benefits from what they do well, which is much more and less recognized). Ironically, the SF guys are arguably more frustrated by the efforts of the JSOC guys than the conventional forces are.
I can see and believe all that (especially that last item ). That was part of my concern -- the development of ill will and enhanced parochialism and again, the words are important. An Area of Operations is one thing and Command responsibility is essentially understood and well delineated (as are OpCom and OpCon -- and when they are not appropriate...). However, 'ownership' implies something else and that can be misunderstood.
One incremental step to smooth this out would be to put all SOF under one set of authorities. That means compromise though. I would, however, open the door to a cleaner C2 lash up.
I agree and as you know there are ways to do that cleanly and easily -- but that's for the over that beer discussion.
As to putting SOF under the BSO, it always sounds good, but it also always ends up in some tragic application of SOF to solve problems that are merely difficult and dangerous, rather than SOF-unique in the skills and capabilities required.
Also agree and that should not be done. No need for it if the parameters and command lines are clean...

jmm99 Thanks Mike, that is a valuable contribution and you apparently sensed what I was after. My answer to your question would be that such a Command line would be ideal. However, I'd have to caveat that by jabbering about personalities and parochialism.

max161Bingo!!!

I asked the Thread question for the two reasons I stated initially and for the reason you state far better than I. It was one of three unstated goals in asking the question -- the Nation whose territory it is "owns the Battle Space" -- US Forces can have an AO assigned within that and the C2 process for that are well established. The term BSO has bad connotations and implies a condition that cannot -- cetainly should not -- exist. The ANA can use the term, we should not.

A second unstated reason: To ask why on earth would we substitute dicey civilian ideas like ownership for proven doctrinal concepts and TTP? (I will not here ask about the either the Mayor or the BBQ coordinator on Afghan located FOBs...)

The third and most important of all was to suggest that yet again that it appears we are adapting unwisely and in administrative mode to a particular war and we will thus build bad habits that will not translate well to a new and different war...