Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 60 of 73

Thread: Catch All OEF Philippines (till 2012)

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinoyme View Post
    Hi:

    Yup.

    Many Filipinos are happy about this even if they do not take to the streets to march.

    Nonetheless, maybe it would be nice also if US policymakers were to craft an indirect program to rid a number of AFP officers and enlisted personnel of their Bonapartist tendencies. This bad habit they picked up during the latter part of the Marcos dictatorship.

    There is still the threat this progress shall not be sustainable. This if a number of AFP troopers shall think it is they who are the saviors of the Philippines.

    It is about time all learned to respect civilian supremacy even if the Philippine government does have warts.

    True, the country may have governance problems and this also includes the Philippine Army and the rest of the AFP.

    A coup d'etat however is no solution.

    Cheers and Mabuhay.
    Interesting. Espousing that the U.S. indirectly get rid of Philippine military members, or their tendencies.

    This is a common conflict of desired involvement that Filipinos voice. When the U.S. does get involved they are "Imperialist," but when they let Filipinos try & solve their own problems, they should do more.

    My take...a revolution will eventually be the ONLY way this country will rid itself of the Oligarchy that controls it. There is a website that list the controlling family of each town, city, province here (sorry, couldn't find it right now). It is amazing that this stuff is still prevelent here in 2007. Does anybody really think they will be giving up power voluntarilly anytime soon?

    As one local editorialist recently wrote, citing a popular saying during Marcos times..."There are 85 million cowards in the Philippines and One Bitch in charge." Until Filipinos get their heads out of the sand and take charge of their country they will continue to be slaves in their own country and will continue to get the same old corrupt, Do nothing, kleptocratic government that they deserve.

  2. #2
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    106

    Default Understand your frustration, but...

    My take...a revolution will eventually be the ONLY way this country will rid itself of the Oligarchy that controls it.
    CalmSeas (I would hate to see rough seas if this is calm), I understand your frustration with the corruption in the Philippines (and other developing and non-developing nations), but when I think of revolutions I think of Castro, Mao, and Lenin who led revolutions to throw the bastards out, only to be replaced with much worse systems. The book answer is to ensure that the government enforces its anti-corruption laws, but of course we know that is a joke, the enforcer will not throw him/herself in prison.

    Transforming the government has always been the most challenging, and often unattainable, goal for COIN or peace enforcement missions, especially in places in the Philippines, most of Latin America, and all of Africa, where corruption is embedded in the culture. We can develop tactically and technically competent security forces, but as we all know this isn't enough.

    I'm sure there are a few discussion threads on this somewhere in SWJ, but without this government/cultural transformation any victory will only be transient in nature.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Global Scout View Post
    CalmSeas (I would hate to see rough seas if this is calm), I understand your frustration with the corruption in the Philippines (and other developing and non-developing nations), but when I think of revolutions I think of Castro, Mao, and Lenin who led revolutions to throw the bastards out, only to be replaced with much worse systems. The book answer is to ensure that the government enforces its anti-corruption laws, but of course we know that is a joke, the enforcer will not throw him/herself in prison.

    Transforming the government has always been the most challenging, and often unattainable, goal for COIN or peace enforcement missions, especially in places in the Philippines, most of Latin America, and all of Africa, where corruption is embedded in the culture. We can develop tactically and technically competent security forces, but as we all know this isn't enough.

    I'm sure there are a few discussion threads on this somewhere in SWJ, but without this government/cultural transformation any victory will only be transient in nature.
    Then..what would be your recommendation for solving the morass here in the Philippines?

    Remember...the Philippines has had their Independence since 1946 and WAS the most promising nation circa 1950s, but due to greediness, corruption and what is commonly referred to as "Ako muna (Me first, selfish, individualistic mentality)" they are almost in last place here in SE Asia.

    Democracy is a sad joke here, with massive cheating at all levels of elections. The current "Illigetimate President" resorts to buying off the congress in order to kill impeachment raps and political salvagings (state sanctioned murders) have topped 800+ and some reports have them at over 1,000.

    From a moral stance this place has turned into "Sodom and Gomorrah (sp.)."

    You hit it on the head that there needs to be a "Cultural Transformation," since this is the main excuse given for many of the things that occur here (It is part of our culture).

    Believe me, I have racked my brain trying to figure out another avenue of establishing some form of normalacy here but it is beyond hope at this time in history. If you have a better idea lets hear it.

    Not all "Revolutions" are in aid of establishing a communist type regime. One could argue that our own "War of Independence" was a Revolution. The French had their own Revolution, etc. A Revolution of the entire system (ruling elite http://www.endpoliticaldynasty.com/) is what needs to occur. If it can be done within the constitution, then all is good, but we know that that is not going to happen. A "rough and questionable model" would be S. Africa, in which the controlling elite is made to answer for all of their past sins...but I do not see the masa (people) having the intestinal fortitude for such a feat.

  4. #4
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,099

    Default MILF and the Peace Process

    Zachary Abuza, writing for the Jebsen Center for CT Studies, 21 Feb 08:

    The Philippine Peace Process: Too Soon to Claim a Settlement with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front?
    Peace talks between the Moro Islamic Liberation Front and the government of the Republic of the Philippines were stalled for more than eleven years until November 2007, when a breakthrough was reached. Yet, in the following month, the MILF walked out of the peace talks, and they now remain deadlocked. Back-channel talks continue, but the issues are complex, and spoilers on all side abound. What is at stake in the Philippine peace process, and what are the implications for international security and counter-terrorism?
    Complete 8 page paper at the link.

  5. #5
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,099

    Default USIP: Towards Peace in the Southern Philippines

    USIP, 20 Feb 08: Toward Peace in the Southern Philippines: A Summary and Assessment of the USIP Philippine Facilitation Project, 2003-2007
    Summary

    • The Muslim inhabitants of Mindanao and Sulu in the southern Philippines, known as Moros, have resisted assimilation into the Christianized national culture for centuries. Since Spanish colonial times, Moros have been marginalized from Philippine society, politics, and economic development. Moro-dominated areas have suffered from the effects of war, poor governance, and lack of justice. High crime rates, internal clan-on-clan conflicts, and corruption and abuse by local leaders also beset Moro communities. For nearly four decades, Moros have rebelled against the Philippine government and sought self-determination. The rebellion was led first by the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) and then by the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF). In 2003, the U.S. State Department, seeking to prevent international terrorist groups from exploiting the conflict in the Philippines, engaged USIP to facilitate a peace agreement between the government of the Republic of the Philippines (GRP) and the MILF. The State Department felt that the Institute’s status as a quasi-governmental, “track one-and-a-half” player would allow it to engage the parties more broadly than an official government entity could. To accomplish its mandate, USIP launched the Philippine Facilitation Project (PFP).

    • PFP faced many difficulties at the outset. The Malaysian government had served as host and facilitator of the GRP-MILF peace talks since 2001 and opposed an American presence at the negotiating table. Moros suspected USIP’s presence, motives, and relationship with the U.S. government. USIP, lacking a permanent base in Mindanao, also faced challenges in establishing strong channels of communication with the GRP, MILF, and civil society. Multiple changes in the composition of the GRP negotiating team, and divergent perspectives and agendas within the Moro leadership and communities further complicated the peace facilitation effort. At times, senior GRP officials’ lukewarm support for an equitable and effective peace agreement hampered the efforts of skilled and committed negotiators. Corruption and criminality among the Moros, exacerbated by centuries-old clan loyalties, created other hurdles.

    • Despite the challenges, USIP managed to build productive relationships with both the GRP and the MILF, helped the parties come up with creative solutions to stubborn issues of ancestral domain, and started dialogue between disparate Moro ethnic groups. PFP’s multifaceted approach included directly sharing lessons learned by principals from other conflict areas around the world; training civil society leaders in conflict management; promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation via the Bishops-Ulama Forum; supporting the training of Mindanao history teachers on teaching a historical narrative that is more inclusive of the Moro experience; and launching dialogue among young Moro leaders. To improve media coverage of the conflict, PFP held two training workshops for media representatives. It also conducted six workshops on conflict management, negotiation, and communication for Philippine military officers.

    • Through its activities, USIP introduced concepts and approaches that were useful to both government and MILF peace panels. It helped inform the Philippine population, and elites in Manila in particular, of issues underlying the conflict in Mindanao, while presenting potentially viable means of resolving them. The Institute’s efforts have added marginally to more balanced media coverage. USIP funding supported the publication of policy papers, which were distributed to scholars, analysts, journalists, and policymakers. USIP also sponsored educational materials for use in Philippine schools.

    • Philippine economic progress and U.S. counterterrorism objectives will remain precarious until the Mindanao conflict is resolved. The roots of conflict in Mindanao are primarily political, not economic or religious. Preference for military “solutions” will likely miss the delicate nuances of intergroup conflict and could even worsen the situation. To move the peace process forward, U.S. policymakers must give higher priority to the GRP-MILF negotiations and commit to working with both parties long enough to reach an agreement and implement it. The Philippine government, for its part, will need to muster the political will to address Moro grievances more effectively, especially on land claims, control over economic resources, and political self-governance. When an agreement is reached, implementation will require long-term monitoring by a committed international body. Today’s complex diplomatic landscape increasingly requires new tools and techniques of conflict management, including quasi- and nongovernmental actors, to accomplish U.S. foreign policy goals. Because of its ability to deal with nonstate actors and sensitive issues underlying civil conflict, USIP can be a useful instrument for advancing U.S. interests.
    Complete 24 page paper at the link.

  6. #6
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,099

    Default

    ICG, 23 Oct 08: The Philippines: The Collapse of Peace in Mindanao
    On 14 October 2008 the Supreme Court of the Philippines declared a draft agreement between the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) and the Philippines government unconstitutional, effectively ending any hope of peacefully resolving the 30-year conflict in Mindanao while President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo remains in office. The Memorandum of Agreement on Ancestral Domain (MOA-AD or MOA), the culmination of eleven years’ negotiation, was originally scheduled to have been signed in Kuala Lumpur on 5 August. At the last minute, in response to petitions from local officials who said they had not been consulted about the contents, the court issued a temporary restraining order, preventing the signing. That injunction in turn led to renewed fighting that by mid-October had displaced some 390,000......

  7. #7
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,099

    Default

    ICG, 16 Feb 09: The Philippines: Running in Place in Mindanao
    .....Peace is not around the corner in Mindanao. No one should have illusions that the government’s move toward reestablishing its negotiating team presages a new political will to address the complex issues that scuttled the MOA. But if a settlement seems unlikely during the Arroyo administration, there is still much to be done now that might help make a future peace stronger. The MILF negotiators have studied many of the autonomy agreements reached around the world in the last decade, but there are still lessons to be learned not just in what provisions were included but how compromises were reached and what tactics were used......

  8. #8
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,169

    Default Unanticipated consequences

    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAN494095.htm

    COTABATO CITY, Philippines, May 27 (Reuters) - Fighting between Philippine troops and rogue factions of a Muslim rebel group has spread beyond oil and gas-rich wetlands in the south, and more guerrillas could get involved, a rebel leader said.

    Rogue MILF factions went on the rampage last August and attacked Christian-majority towns after a peace deal between the government and the MILF leadership was aborted. Nearly 600 people have been killed since then.
    MILF leadership generally accepts Philippine security force operations against rogue MILF elements, but now that conflict is effecting main stream MILF areas, and it is creating a significant humanitarian problem for the Moros who have been displaced by the fighting, thus risking another war with main stream MILF (which would be significant). A few stray operations can easily undue years of hard won gains through a hearts and minds approach. This really creates a catch 22 situation for the security forces.

    Tens of thousands of villagers have fled areas near the marshlands because of artillery bombardments, taking refuge in mosques, school buildings and gymnasiums elsewhere. At least 500,000 people are described as internal refugees.

    "They're trying to drain the pond to catch the fish, but that counter-insurgency strategy has been proven to be a failure," said Iqbal of the offensive. "I don't think the government can defeat us militarily. We have the support of the people."

    Iqbal said his group has not abandoned attempts to resume peace talks, but any deal was unlikely under President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, who leaves office next year.
    There is another side to this story, but it is interesting to hear the views of MILF leadership.

  9. #9
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,706

    Default

    There are always many sides, and many perspectives.

    My greatest (not sole, but greatest) frustration with OEF-P is that if the MILF of Mindanao and the MNLF of the Sulu Archepeligo wanted the ASG and JI (our two targets of OEF-P, and the reason for US engagement) out of the Philippines, those guys would be gone within a week. So long as they provide sanctuary instead, the security forces of the Philippines will never be able to drive them out. So the clear main effort is to get the Government of the Philippines to work out a compromise with these two main groups that contains that removal of those other two groups as a contingency, while granting the first two full legitimacy in the government.

    We should offer the Philippines aid and support contingent on them working seriously to do this (carrots); and tell them quite seriously that if they won't help the populace of the south, then we will, and that while a separate Moro state is not our ideal situation, if that is how government wants to play it, then that is their choice (sticks).

    Second order effect would likely be a push by the communist insurgency in the north and a toppling of the ever-fragile national government by either them or by the military. Regardless, we would be able to work with whichever group took power and continue to work toward accomplishment of all of our national objectives in the region if this did occur. The Fils know this; and I am sure they often wonder why don't do the obvious.
    Last edited by Bob's World; 06-02-2009 at 10:10 AM.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

Similar Threads

  1. Philippines (2012 onwards, inc OEF)
    By Dayuhan in forum Asia-Pacific
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 03-14-2019, 05:57 PM
  2. Communist Insurgency in the Philippines (catch all)
    By pinoyme in forum Asia-Pacific
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 06-05-2014, 11:03 AM
  3. The US role in the Philippines (catch all)
    By SWJED in forum OEF - Philippines
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 10-23-2009, 08:13 AM
  4. Iraq Isn't the Philippines
    By SWJED in forum OEF - Philippines
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 01-26-2007, 07:21 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •