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Thread: LAR in COE/Afghan

  1. #1
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    Default LAR in COE/Afghan

    Gentlemen,

    My orders got switched from a straight leg infantry Bn to a LAR Bn. Good and Bad.

    At LAR I've been told I'll get a company right away and have a full work up. At the inf Bn there was no guarantees, was probably going to be the 3A or H&S CO.

    The only drawback is that since I've been at EWS I've focused on my efforts on truly understanding and learning how to fight a rifle company in both COIN and conventional.

    Understandably there are some baseline similarities in tactics however I need to get spun up on LAR TTPs in conventional and COIN realms, specifically what they have been doing in Afg.

    Long way of me saying can anyone point me in the right direction for LAR preparation. I know the Canadiens use them. Any ideas on their TTPs? I'm reading the current USMC LAR employment along with the LAR gunnery pub.

    I'm ordering Defense of Hill 782 this weekend. Understand it's like a mech infantry Duffer's Drift.

    Any help is appreciated. Either way I'm pumped to get back out to the Fleet and tackle something new.

    Thanks for any help.

    Pete

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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    You will do windows, just as if you were a straight-leg, so don't worry. Right now the principles are no different...FIND-FIX-FINISH, except that you can at times do it traveling a whole lot faster, and with a weapon system that shoots farther and can wreck stuff pretty well better than anything you are used to. The basics remain the same, just fix and maneuver.

    I recently left 1st LAR after just shy of 3 years as the XO. Deployed to OIF and OEF with the unit.

    Hit me up with a PM and I will pass on what I think you need to know, who you need to talk to next, and what additional resources you should seek out. You can start by putting down the Battalion Employment and Gunnery Pubs, and start reading a few Army FMs that you need to master first (I know, surprising isn't it?)

    Infanteer is also a good resource, as he was in the Kandahar area with his LAV-mounted platoon, and more often than not, patrolled on foot from PBs adjacent agrarian areas. He can talk quite a few TTP at the tactical level.

    ETA: Yeah, I heard about you and saw you on the inbound roster. Nothing but good things so far though...
    Last edited by jcustis; 03-05-2011 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Don't mean to butt in...

    Quote Originally Posted by EPA View Post
    I'm ordering Defense of Hill 782 this weekend. Understand it's like a mech infantry Duffer's Drift.
    ...but to what book are you refering to above? Piqued my interest but can find nothing on a google search.

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    Correction, Defense of Hill 781: An allegory of mechanized combat, is the book I incorrectly referenced.

    Found it on amazon.com for about from $6 to $13. Just ordered it. Should be here in a week or so.

    Pete

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    Just spent 7 months in Kandahar with a LAV company as the LAV Capt (Coy S3). Did half the tour in Kandahar City and half in Panjawai. Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    The Defense of Hill 781 is indeed a mechanized version of Duffer's Drift, set in the "Box" at NTC. It is dated though (published in '93), and focused on conventional combat and a peer enemy.

    It makes for a great read when thinking about the basic principles of maneuver, like reconnaissance, deception, and mass, but beyond that, current warriors would get more out of the current small unit leader COIN texts.
    Last edited by jcustis; 03-06-2011 at 08:32 AM.

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    EPA - Good Luck and a successful tour. Safe home, as well!

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    Council Member TAH's Avatar
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    Default Add to your kit bag...

    The Defense of Jisr al-Doreaa

    A very short but thought prevoking book along the lines of Defense of Duffers and Hill 781.

    Set in COIN and centered around a US Army unit scout platoon with Bradleys and HMMWV as I recall.

    Stay safe.

  9. #9
    Council Member TAH's Avatar
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    Default Second Book

    Dan Bolger (an Army BG now) wrote a book called, The Attack on Hunger Hill. Its about his battalion's rotation through the JRTC back in the 90s. He also wrote Dragon at War, back in the 80s. At that time, he was a company commander and the book is about his unit's rotation through NTC.

    While not COIN or Hybrid enemy, they are both good reads about planning versus execution.

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    Council Member 82redleg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAH View Post
    Dan Bolger (an Army BG now)
    LTG Bolger is the G-3/5/7.

    And both are good books.

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    Council Member 82redleg's Avatar
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    http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/doc...l10.1_08_e.pdf

    Article from Canadian Army Journal was fourth result of googling "canada army lav afghanistan"

    There's probably more articles in the journal, here
    http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/def....asp?view=more

    I don't see an index, but if you select each issue (they go back to 1998) in the top right, select each issue and then scroll down, you can see the contents of each issue.

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    Thanks for the responses and info.

    I've read Defense of Jisr Al-Doreaa. Good short read my plt cmdrs will read. I liken it to an Idiot's guide in the CENTCOM AO.

    Thanks for the Canadian article. I'll have to google the same. Ive got my hands on some army pubs pertaining to Troop and Cavalry TTPs. I'm also going to attend the USMC LAV leader's. I've heard good things so I'm looking forward to it.

    Pete

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    Pete,

    Good luck and Safe Home for you and your men.

    This comment is off topic, but I just saw Battlefield LA at the local
    movied house. I had no idea it about a Marine Rifle platoon taking on a interstellar invader, along the lines of the movie "Independence Day!"

    I predict this movie will be the Marine Corps' best recruiting movie of the 21 Century.

    I was surprised and pleased with historical connection between modern Marines and the 2nd Bn., (2/5) 5th Marine Regiment. It is science fiction, but it shows a lot of the current Corps weapons and spirit. No love interest required. It even refers to its Regimental Commanders comment in WWI France when told to Retreat. His answer was "Retreat Hell! We just got here!"

    I'm an old rifle squad leader from M-3/5. Ken, this one's for you "Guns up!"

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    82redleg,

    Thanks for the posts. Read the articles you linked and it seems that the Canadians view the LAV as an IFV. They were beneficial to see how other countries are employing LAVs in Afghanistan. The MCWP 3-14, Employment of the LAR Bn specifically states that the LAV is not an IFV but a recon platform.

    Interesting how two services with the same exact vehicle have a different philosophical difference about the same platform.

    Pete

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    Council Member 82redleg's Avatar
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    I'm just a dumba$$ cannoncocker, with a slight interest in the rest of things military, but that is how I understand it. However, employment of the same vehicle in the same (or very similar AO) in similar operations can't be useless- at the very least, micro-TTPs (recovery, bridges, etc) should be useful.

    However, in the COE, I think that LAR units (just as US Army Cavalry organizations) have been asked to do more than simply reconnaissance, and the employment of all maneuver elements has converged.

    The Australians use the LAV, to, and I believe they also view it as a recon platform. The international students are on a field trip this week, so I won't be able to get anything until early next week, but I'll check with our Aussie officer and see if there are any good articles. They call their LAVs the ASLAV.

    A quick google search turned up:
    http://www.australiandefence.com.au/...FE0050568C22C9
    and
    http://www.army.gov.au/lwsc/docs/Til..._Coin_Toss.pdf

    Going to the home sites of these docs should provide more than I found quickly.

  16. #16
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    The Australians use the LAV, to, and I believe they also view it as a recon platform.
    The treat their organizations as cavalry, and yes, employ deliberate reconnaissance techniques, but also employ troop carriers at the platoon level to carry Javelin equipped troops.

    They are very good at employing them in some of the worst terrain Queensland can offer to the BLUFOR.

    The Royal Australian Army and Marine Corps exchange SNCOs. Ours serves at the schoolhouse, while theirs is posted to our 1st LAR Battalion.

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