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  1. #1
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Default US Declaration of Independence and the current situation in Afghanistan

    As I read through this entire document yet again, I decided we really need to put this up on the virtual wall of the SWJ and use it to guide a discussion about the current state of affairs in Afghanistan.

    In particular, look to the long list of charges at the bottom of the document. These are the specific allegations of the American people to the their King in England to support their charges of Despotism and Tyranny that in turn was triggering a god-given duty and right in the American people to rise up in insurgency.

    As you look at this list, try to do so from the perspective of that segment of the Afghan populace not represented by the Northern Alliance. Additionally, as this document was prepared by the elite leadership of that segment of the populace, consider this most closely from the perspective of the Taliban leadership in exile in Pakistan.

    Most Afghans feel represented by the Northern Alliance-based GIRoA; just as most American colonists felt represented by the King and his system of colonial governance. This is a Declaration made by a minority who perceived their situation to oppressive and to have no legal recourse to address those perceptions left to them.

    So, again, focus on the list of complaints from that Afghan perspective, and lets pull out and discuss those that seem disturbingly as true (if not more so) in Afghanistan today under the Karzai government than was the case in the American colonies under King George.

    IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
    hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

  2. #2
    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    I will note right up front that while there was no confusion between the Hessians and the British as to who was the responsible party, that line is nowhere near as clear in Afghanistan.

    The hand of the United State is heavy upon the formation of GIRoA, and in bringing the Northern Alliance to power as well as sustaining them in power. So many of these charges that are clearly levied against the British crown in 1776 must be analyzed more closely in the Afghan context where there is almost always at least some degree of shared culpability between GIRoA and the U.S., and to a lesser degree the rest of the Coalition. Perhaps the rest of the Coalition matches more closely with the Hessian forces described here.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

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    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    No one interested in looking at Afghanistan through a disturbingly fresh lens? Ok, I'll go first. Here as some charges that could reasonably apply to the Coalition:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:


    or also

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:


    or even

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.


    This is the problem when one adopts a colonial perspective on intervening in the lands and populaces of others, it leads one to become so focused on the pursuit of their own interests that they tend to lose sight of how the nature of the pursuit of those interests (IAW the Rule of Law) are reasonably perceived by the affected populace.

    Certainly the government in England was outraged when this document arrived for their review. I suspect many Americans are equally outraged that one might imply that the Afghan people of today are in many ways similarly situated to the American people of 1776.

    Many of these charges obviously could be levied against the Karzai regime as well, while for several the line blurs between the two parties as to which has the greatest hand.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

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    Council Member 120mm's Avatar
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    Yes. To all the above.

    I believe that nearly everything we are doing in Afghanistan, we are doing it horribly and tragically wrong.

    But I still believe we should be engaged with Afghanistan and doing what we need to do here to fix the problems we caused by our proxy war with the Soviet Union.

    In addition, hopefully leaving Afghanistan a better place than we found it.

    But...

    From the most senior civilian and military levels, Afghan policy is evidently formulated and executed by particularly retarded, drunken, poo-flinging monkeys, to include Saint David, the General in a Hurry, and has been since the very beginning. Actually, from way before the beginning.

    Just discussing it makes me angry.

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    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    I don't post this to cast judgment, merely to lend perspective.

    Sometimes when one gets so close to very difficult problem they begin to lose sight of the bigger picture, and lose the ability to empathize with those who their actions affect the most.

    We have more than a bit of that going on. The Brits were largely reasonable and well intended in their approaches to the American Colonies as well. These things happen. It is important to draw the right lessons learned, set guards against falling into the same pitfalls, and focus on doing those things that produce the best effect in the manner that generates the least negative side-effect.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

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    The first part of the equation is "this is happening". The second, and likely telling, part of the equation is "how are these people interpreting/receiving this?"

    I think the turn of events in the country since the 2006 fighting season kicked off is telling....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
    No one interested in looking at Afghanistan through a disturbingly fresh lens? Ok, I'll go first. Here as some charges that could reasonably apply to the Coalition:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:


    or also

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:


    or even

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.


    This is the problem when one adopts a colonial perspective on intervening in the lands and populaces of others, it leads one to become so focused on the pursuit of their own interests that they tend to lose sight of how the nature of the pursuit of those interests (IAW the Rule of Law) are reasonably perceived by the affected populace.

    Certainly the government in England was outraged when this document arrived for their review. I suspect many Americans are equally outraged that one might imply that the Afghan people of today are in many ways similarly situated to the American people of 1776.

    Many of these charges obviously could be levied against the Karzai regime as well, while for several the line blurs between the two parties as to which has the greatest hand.
    I often tell my guys that the final exam for COIN/STAB ops instruction ought to be watching Red Dawn then devising a plan to get Jed and the Wolverines to like the Soviets and Cubans.

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    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    I often tell my guys that the final exam for COIN/STAB ops instruction ought to be watching Red Dawn then devising a plan to get Jed and the Wolverines to like the Soviets and Cubans.
    So, has anybody ever passed the final?
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
    So, has anybody ever passed the final?
    No one has taken up the "Wolverine Challenge"... most of the guys I teach are pretty smart

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