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    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Certainly many of those things tend to happen in some degree or order. But not all, and certainly not in some prescriptive checklist.

    But there is a solid thread running through this:

    Government policies and their implementation lead to growing discontent and perceptions of hopelessness within significant elements of society.

    At some point a tipping point is reached, and the populace acts out illegally to challenge the government.

    Depending on the openness of the society this reaction may grow slowly and develop a growing organization and influence to compete with government, or it may explode all at once in a disorganized mob to challenge government.

    Opportunists from both within and without the populace will intervene to seek opportunities to support their interests. Some to support the government, some to support the populace.

    The populace is the matrix this all occurs within, and is both the parent and the child of the government as well as the rebel. The majority of the populace will likely remain neutral unless dragged in by one side or the other, hedging their bets where opportunity allows.

    Regardless of if a slow building organized revolt or a rapid disorganized revolt occurs, there will be chaos, lawlessness, retributions, economic disruption, and hardships for at least a generation until a new stability can evolve from the conflict.
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    Council Member J Wolfsberger's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, the trigger point is something he described as the disappointment of rising expectations. This was, in his view, a "middle class" phenomenon wherein the growing middle class sees an end to (or frustration of) the improvement in social, political and economic improvements, and may see a drop off. At some point in the course of the revolution, the radical elements in society take over and attempt to implement their Utopian view of society through a Reign of Terror. After that runs its course, there is a cooling off period ("Thermidor") before society returns to a stable, somewhat traditional form.

    I believe he also suggested that, because of the Constitution and the emergence of the two party structure, the United States remained locked in a sort of period of revolutionary behavior of the sort just prior to the Reign of Terror.

    I haven't read it in a long time, and its packed away so I can't check my recollection. If I've got it wrong, let me know.
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    Default Great book

    But like wolf, it's been too long since I studied it. I'll try to dust off the cobwebs.

    Coupla points:
    One of the other 60s Rev War guys, maybe Gurr, pointed out that the important delta was between expectations and reality. Reality could really suck, but if there were no expectations of a better life, the area was stable. Once expectations outstripped reality, even if reality was good, then trouble started to brew.

    Had a P at Fletcher who made a special case for LATAM "revolutions" (this was also decades ago). His thesis was that in LATAM, revolutions were in fact rotations by various members of the educated middle class, often in the officer corps. They would incite the general populace with visions of improvement, replace the existing regime, then commence to screwing the lower classes just as before. One thugoid family simply replaced another in the name of -- take your pick.

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    Council Member J Wolfsberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Eagle View Post
    Coupla points:
    One of the other 60s Rev War guys, maybe Gurr, pointed out that the important delta was between expectations and reality. Reality could really suck, but if there were no expectations of a better life, the area was stable. Once expectations outstripped reality, even if reality was good, then trouble started to brew.
    The course I took had us reading Brinton and Gurr at the same time. Was I conflating the two, and the idea of disappointing expectations was from Gurr?
    John Wolfsberger, Jr.

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