How soldiers deal with the job of killing

[motorfirebox]

This article seems related, albeit unintentionally on the part of the author. It really seems like this is putting the cart before the horse. You have soldiers being stretched thin on repeated deployments to theater where the rules are muddy at best, against an enemy that camouflages itself as the population that the soldiers are nominally in place to protect. When the stress starts to fray the soldiers, you medicate them to deal with that damage. And then when a soldier malfunctions... you blame the meds? Are these people stupid or just retarded?

[davidbfpo]

Motorfirefox,

The issues around the prescription and or use of drugs by the US military, based on a similar news story (from the UK) was posted on the thread concerning Sgt. Bales alleged murder in Afghanistan, Post 147 onwards:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...t=15273&page=8

We don't know how his court-martial will go, but one suspects that his defence may include the use or misuse of drugs and that may finally get sustained attention to the issues. It would be ironic if a murder trial did that and we know that trials, coroners inquests, leaks and non-official action often do better than officialdom in challenging procedures.

There is a plea from the heart on the thread by Mike Few 'White Paper: PTSD and mTBI' which IMO takes a stark look at how soldiers deal with the job of killing and far more - mainly written in 2009:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=7069

[davidbfpo]

A BBC Radio File on Four programme summarised:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18902195

The study by Dr Deirdre MacManus, at The Kings Centre for Military Health Research, found an association between soldiers' experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, and violent behaviour at home. Soldiers involved in direct combat were twice as likely as others to admit having hit someone at the end of the tour, the research found. A third of the victims were someone in the family - often a wife or girlfriend.

Cultural change needs to be encouraged... so servicemen realise it's not un-macho to put their hands up and say 'I need help'.”

Dr MacManus said: "The association between performing a combat role and being exposed to combat, and subsequent violence on return from deployment, is about two fold. We also saw that soldiers who had seen more than one traumatic event were more likely to report being violent."

[JMA]

A BBC Radio File on Four programme summarised:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18902195

... and how many committed such acts of violence before a combat tour?

[ganulv]

... and how many committed such acts of violence before a combat tour?

I can’t immediately find the text of the study, but I did find a 2011 study lead-authored by Dr. MacManus. From p. 5:

Interestingly a pre-enlistment history of A[nti-]S[ocial]B[ehavior] was not significantly associated with being deployed to Iraq in this study. However, it was associated with spending on average more time on the deployment in the past 3 years, serving in a combat role and being more likely to discharge a weapon in direct combat. This implies that those with a history of ASB may be more likely to be selected into the infantry which would increase the likelihood that they will be in direct combat situations and thus be more likely to have to discharge a weapon in combat or it may be hypothesised that they may have a lower threshold for violence in the combat situation.

[JMA]

I can’t immediately find the text of the study, but I did find a 2011 study lead-authored by Dr. MacManus. From p. 5:

As always, a good find, thank you.

For me the conclusion of the abstract says it best:

Conclusion: The results of this study suggest that those already demonstrating ASB prior to joining the military are more likely to continue on this trajectory, thus emphasising the importance of considering pre-enlistment behaviour when exploring the aetiology of aggression in military personnel.

I would suggest that pre-enlistment behaviour should be considered before allowing the person to sign-on in the military in the first place. Remember the days when people when convicted were given the opportunity to go to prison or join the army? Selection is the problem.

Then selection itself becomes the problem when (as with the Brits in the Great War) your fit, healthy and capable are slaughtered while your "sick, lame and lazy" stay safely at home.

That said, my comment related to that pre-enlistment behaviour was a better basis to predict post combat ASB than merely exposure to combat itself.

[JMA]

I can’t immediately find the text of the study, but I did find a 2011 study lead-authored by Dr. MacManus. From p. 5:

David, as an ex-Brit copper perhaps your comments on the 5% ASB in the general population against the criteria of the study, please.

[davidbfpo]

I thought that the Forum had a thread on the Haditha murders in November 2005, a search says not, but this "long read" is worth reading.

Update: the main thread has been found, this post has been copied there, after approx. 800 views in a week. The thread is in the Historians area and is:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...g-with-Haditha


Link:https://taskandpurpose.com/true-story-marine-corps-blew-biggest-war-crimes-case/