Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: AROTC MSIII year

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    224

    Default AROTC MSIII year

    Long story short, I'll be heading into my MS3 year of AROTC in the fall and given how this is a crucial year in the program, I was wondering if anybody had any insights, hints/tips etc for me? Given the wide variety and experience of Army leadership here on Small Wars, in addition to the fact that many posters on here have been through the program.

    I feel generally good on everything thus far. Although, I would consider landnav and physical fitness(especially running as my weaknesses) and I've also had trouble with keeping my rucksack workable/managable. Otherwise I feel fairly comfortable with tactics, terrain model kits etc.

    However, I haven't been taking anything for granted and I've been reviewing/preparing for much of the summer.

    If anybody could give me any insight, tips, or anything that would be great!

    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1

    Default MSIII year

    The 7-8 is 'just a guide.'


    If you're thinking this far ahead, you'll be fine.

    Also, don't say the 7-8 is just a guide!

  3. #3
    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by randletr View Post
    The 7-8 is 'just a guide.'


    If you're thinking this far ahead, you'll be fine.

    Also, don't say the 7-8 is just a guide!
    To tell you the truth, I've mainly been using the interactive programs by 550 cord to study since I feel I get more out of it then digging through a field manual. Also I've been using my ROTC textbook as kind of an outline of what to study too.

    So I feel like I'm making progress in this area through the above method.

  4. #4
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Eustis
    Posts
    71

    Default Ms iii

    I would suggest working hard on the PT. A new 2LT is judged by his general fitness as much as anything else, when he arrives to his unit. In fact, at least when I went through OBC, PT was about the only thing a 2LT could expect to do well when he arrived at his first unit, given the quality of instruction then.

    Don't focus too much on the APFT. Look at general rucking, running, and working with a load on. You don't have to be the biggest stud around (believe me, I sure ain't), but nobody wants a wimp for a PL.

    If you hope to be combat arms or combat support, the land nav is also important. Do it alot to gain confidence. Try it without a compass, using just terrain association, if you have suitable terrain. This will help you at night, when feeling the slope of the land and seeing the silhouette of ridgelines can keep you on track even when you are not paying attention to your compass. But you need to be competent and comfortable, moving at night through terrain.

    You need to be able to deliver a pretty decent oporder with very little for guides or notes. Practise, practise, practise. Create scenarios with fellow MSIIIs and execute a 5-para oporder, and have them critique it. Do the same for them - you can learn from their mistakes as well as yours. And do it with lots of time to add every detail, as well as in a time-constrained environment, where there is pressure to execute a good plan RIGHT NOW.

    Finally, general academics - you have to graduate to get commissioned. Keep that in mind as you work toward your goal. It also is important for your position within your battalion as an MSIV. As an examble, I failed an optional class that I didn't need for graduation during my MSIII year. It was taking up too much time and I stopped attending. I should have been more deliberate in removing myself from the class, but that is another story. Point being, during the first half of my MSIII year, instead of being the S-3, I was just another senior, because of a 'drop-fail' on my academic record (that didn't even hurt my GPA very much).

    Good luck.

    Tankersteve

  5. #5
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    I second my old comrade tankersteve.

    Fail your classes and you will limit your options, as I put in a different thread. Looking back at long term effects my (low) undergraduate academic GPA impacted my options far more than any ROTC superlative that I spent inordinate amounts of time on. You need to graduate with a 3.0 or higher if you want to open some doors to cool jobs post-company command. I worked out well anyway, but it would have been nice to have been able to do some of the cool fellowships which require a decent academic record. By the time I corrected with grad school the window had closed for this.

    Doing well at camp, again, recommend tankersteve's option. Learn to brief well. Get critiqued giving opords and plans. You don't have to be the fastest/strongest but you can't be the slowest or dumbest. Know the FM 7-8 tactics and battledrills. Develop some laminated OPORD/TLP cheat cards to carry in a small binder for field OPORDs.

    Learn to delegate during MDMP. Assign roles and responsibilities to your peers for things like sandtables, rehearsals, note taking, etc. Being able to prioritize/deputize/supervise is key. When not in command/key leader, help others succeed and look good. It will pay off when you are in charge.

    Although it has changed a lot in the 14 or so years since tankersteve and I were cadets, your branch selection comes down to GPA, camp performance, and your PMSs assessment of you. Allocate your time appropriately.
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
    Who is Cavguy?

  6. #6
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Eustis
    Posts
    71

    Default Ms iii

    Niel,

    Good to hear from you. Hope you are enjoying your location. I am soon to be a month out of heading home.

    Yes, it has been a long time since camp. As Niel said, help your peers out. One tip I remember, that may not be relevant, but take it for what it's worth.

    Squad missions are a common building block before platoon missions. When you are only leading a squad, vice a platoon, you can pick 'weaker' peers to lead fire teams. It is only an Army squad, with just 2 fire teams, and much of what is going on, you can lead directly. This builds up some confidence in your 'weaker' peers, and makes you look like a good guy, getting them involved. They will be better for the experience, and hopefully work harder in and out of the leader posiitions when you need a hand.

    The key to this is pick a stud for compass or pace counter. If you don't get to the objective, you are a fail right off the bat.

    Now, as a platoon leader, I would pick stronger cadets for squad leader positions. A squad has to have a decent leader. Pace counter/compass is still pretty important.

    Is this gaming the system? Maybe but making smart decisions when delegating and working with subordinates is something a new LT should be able to do.

    PT, land nav, and academics are still real important. Read about Army stuff. Learn to shoot (it won't matter for branching, but no one wants the new LT who can't qualify with his weapon - get private instruction if you have to!) Have fun, and pay attention to the prior service guys (shameless plug). Don't listen to that crap about it doesn't matter what branch you serve in. It sure does! Branch Armor!

    Tankersteve

  7. #7
    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Washington DC
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tankersteve View Post
    I would suggest working hard on the PT. A new 2LT is judged by his general fitness as much as anything else, when he arrives to his unit. In fact, at least when I went through OBC, PT was about the only thing a 2LT could expect to do well when he arrived at his first unit, given the quality of instruction then.

    Don't focus too much on the APFT. Look at general rucking, running, and working with a load on. You don't have to be the biggest stud around (believe me, I sure ain't), but nobody wants a wimp for a PL.

    If you hope to be combat arms or combat support, the land nav is also important. Do it alot to gain confidence. Try it without a compass, using just terrain association, if you have suitable terrain. This will help you at night, when feeling the slope of the land and seeing the silhouette of ridgelines can keep you on track even when you are not paying attention to your compass. But you need to be competent and comfortable, moving at night through terrain.

    You need to be able to deliver a pretty decent oporder with very little for guides or notes. Practise, practise, practise. Create scenarios with fellow MSIIIs and execute a 5-para oporder, and have them critique it. Do the same for them - you can learn from their mistakes as well as yours. And do it with lots of time to add every detail, as well as in a time-constrained environment, where there is pressure to execute a good plan RIGHT NOW.

    Finally, general academics - you have to graduate to get commissioned. Keep that in mind as you work toward your goal. It also is important for your position within your battalion as an MSIV. As an examble, I failed an optional class that I didn't need for graduation during my MSIII year. It was taking up too much time and I stopped attending. I should have been more deliberate in removing myself from the class, but that is another story. Point being, during the first half of my MSIII year, instead of being the S-3, I was just another senior, because of a 'drop-fail' on my academic record (that didn't even hurt my GPA very much).

    Good luck.

    Tankersteve
    First off all Sir I want to thank you for the wealth of advice you have provided in this thread.

    I did the MS 1 and 2 deal at my college since I started ROTC my second year of school having missed a year of it. Since the beginning I had a very hard time with PT, but I've made gradual improvement and I recently passed my PT with a 217 up from 130ish starting out. However, it needs to be much high then that. So I've been working hard over the summer to maintain and build more on what I've gained with an alternating workout of situps, pushups, pullups, and running.

    I feel comfortable with how to do a terrain model kit/sandtable/Opords/TLPS overall. Squad and platoon tactics the same thing in terms of a general overview, however I feel I need to find a way to get more familiar with the details. And land nav I feel I should get out and practice beyond just using the programs I'm currently doing. Especially since I have a strong sense of direction.

    Another thing I've had a hard time with along with PT and land nav is D&C, but I'm studying up on that alot also. Also I feel like land nav I need to be put in a position where I can get a chance to practice what I've been observing throughout my year in ROTC.

    In terms of academics I currently have a 3.1. I had close to a 3.5 before the end of last semester, it went down because I didn't pay school enough attention as I should have during that time. I definitely want my GPA higher so I'm going to try to get into this coming semester with the goal of rebuilding my grade point average to it's former glory.

    Branch-wise I'm aiming for MI as my top choice with Armored and MP as my second and third choices respectfully. And in this environment with talks of cuts, etc I feel I can't take anything for granted in terms of getting my top branch choice or active duty for that matter which is also far from guaranteed.

    If you have anymore advice or opinions I'd certainly like to hear!

  8. #8
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Eustis
    Posts
    71

    Default Ms iii

    Kevin,

    Talk to some fitness folks at your school about a PT program. Doing lots of pushups will get you better at doing pushups, but wow, is that boring. The weight room can help and so can doing planks. They should be able to give you some helpful advise.

    Old Eagle hit on an important note - core strength. This does more than just improve your situps. It helps your back when rucking and can prevent injuries. It is the building block of general fitness, IMO.

    Keep working the PT. You have a lot of room for improvement. Consider Crossfit - a generalized workout program that does surprisingly good things for the specialized APFT. And think about this - there are several MI 2LTs in my light infantry brigade (even a couple of tankers, god help us!). They work directly for the battalion S2s (most of them), but their senior rater is the battalion XO, usually an infantry/armor officer. Less than a 270, and you are likely considered a weak sister. Yes, doing your job is important, but being a capable combat leader is too, and as a 2LT, just being a leader is pretty close to your real job, regardless of branch. You never know where you might be asked to serve. Just ask the old Chemo in Cavguy's and my old battalion, who found himself a tank platoon leader in Baghdad.

    I was a pretty decent land nav'er, having done it as a sergeant. However, my ROTC program preached this alot and we would often have overnights in the local state parks, executing day and night land nav courses built by the MS IVs. The extra runs were helpful in gaining additional confidence and working on TTPs (ever have a night where out of the blue you just don't trust your compass? Summer camp isn't the place to work through this...).

    Sand tables/terrain models are a good thing - I just wish I saw more young LTs doing them over here in Afghanistan...

    D&C is fine to practise, but don't let it dominate your efforts. You will practically never do any kind of D&C after you are commissioned. And it doesn't readily contribute to combat readiness, except at a very, very basic level of responding to orders. We no longer extend the line, ala Little Round Top.

    You can always PM me if you have specific questions.

    Tankersteve

Similar Threads

  1. Freedom in the World 2009: Freedom Retreats for Third Year
    By Rex Brynen in forum International Politics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-12-2009, 10:33 PM
  2. Slapout Marine Named Marine Of The Year
    By slapout9 in forum The Whole News
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-24-2008, 06:57 PM
  3. Observations from a Year in the Sunni Triangle
    By SWJED in forum Who is Fighting Whom? How and Why?
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-15-2008, 02:04 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •