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Thread: New Rules for New Enemies

  1. #41
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default And the bullets/words fly....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Rob,

    First of all it is great to see you posting, keep it up.
    Let me definately second that sentiment .

    Second, I agree with your thoughts and it is very much a reality: resources must match demands or the demands will not be fulfilled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    At the risk of being shot or branded a heretic, I believe that we have to make a fundamental shift in our approach to manning and training and that shift is not one that the military can do within itself.

    It's called a draft. If we are fighting new enemies and we need a new approach, we must approach it in a long war model. We are not dong that. We are approaching it in a constant crisis management model; we hire contractors to provide inherently needed services in any war. We are cycling units faster than we can reset those units. And we are doing this in an atmosphere of magnetic ribbon patriotism that portrays trips to the mall as fighting terrorism.
    Tom, while I agree with your reasoning in laying out the needs, I really do have to disagree with you about the proposed "solution". Let me lay out some of the reasoning behind my disagreement.
    1. The "draft" is politically divisive. When the rumours of President Bush thinking about a draft started circulating a while back, there was a lot of political fighting going on in reaction to them. Drafts are seen, quite rightly in my view, as forced labour. Historicallly, and by that I mean let's go back to the 1960's, the draft was full of holes - deferments, escape over the border to Canada (and why do WE have to deal with YOUR social reactionaries? ), etc. Even if the legislation was enacted with no deferments, you would still have a leaking sieve over your northern border, and the people flowing over it would be the people who could afford to come and resettle. That will, IMHO, inevitably lead to increasing racial and ethnic tensions which, in turn, just makes the general US society more vulnerable and more cut off from your allies who either don't have a draft (e.g. Canada) or who have a long history of "national service" and view the US as acting out of desperation (i.e. most of the EU).
    2. The draft will increase internal social conflict. Regardless of any legislation, the racial and ethnic tensions are already fairly high in the US over both the GWOT and the issue of "illegal aliens" (Damn those pesky Martians anyway, comin' here and stealing our jobs!).
    3. The draft is insecure. Okay, supose you do get the legislation through. What is the psycho-social profile of most of the al-Qaida cell members? First or 2nd generation immigrants rediscovering their Islamic identities and living in Western countries. Great! So we now have a situation with heightened tensions and forced labour of young muslims in the US. Tell me you don't think that al-Qaida will see this as a fantastic opportunity to infiltrate! I know that if I was a planner on their side, it is one of the first things I would look at doing.

    There is a final point I want to make about this that doesn't go well in a list (or PowerPoint <wry grin>).

    Given the symbolic meaning of "The Draft" in the US, the current political concerns about the relationship between the various branches of government, and persistant whisperings about a re-establishment of an "Imperial Presidency", I suspect that the basic nature of US society would shift towards that of a "total society". The US doesn't really have that model as something that is defined as "Good", unlike Britain, Canada and most of Europe. It is, in fact, totally opposed to the spirit the led to the original rebellion of the 13 colonies. It is also the core area of conflict that led to your own civil war (the rights of the individual states vs. the rights of the central government) and has led to the creation of many of the militias today.

    Most importantly, I think this would lead inevitably to questioning "why" people are fighting with most of the drafted troops coming to the conclusion that they are doing it because the have to or their own government will hunt them down. Didn't we see enough of that in Vietnam?

    Now, I may be being unduly pessimistic about these projections, but I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    We need a national service draft that does not necessarily draw forces strictly for military use. We need border security. We need our own reconstruction services for disasters. We need a system to draw young people into a sense of middle ground that leaves them with a viewpoint that goes beyond their own needs (seen now as rights versus right to pursue those needs).
    Again, I really don't disagree with your needs assessment, just your proposal to re-implement the draft. Let me toss out an alternative solution.

    First of all, the military has traditionally been a way for kids to get out of poor backgrounds, get some education, learn some discipline and get some bucks together. Service with the Forces has a great number of "pull factors". What if, in place of a draft, you extend these pull factors? What if you were to create a program called "National Service" or some such, that encompassed all of the areas you are talking about in different streams? And, most importantly, where any service with combat forces may happen this is purely voluntary. Structure it so that there is a "basic training" which concentrates on physical fitness, basic educational skills (including history, Steve!) and basic teamwork followed by stream centered "basics".

    Now, free education and experience can certainly help people get a job and will also make it more likely for employers to hire them, so that is one pull factor. Let's add in another one - "money". We have already heard a fair bit about school vouchers in the secondary school system, what if that was expanded into the post-secondary system using the same model as WWII? For each year of "national service" up to, say, a maximimum of four years, give the partcipants a voucher for one year of tuition and then require that that voucher be accepted. The universities would scream, but let them - they can still cherry pick based on SATs and other forms of entrance exams. Expand on this idea somewhat and modify it so that someone who doesn't want to go to university would get a government guarenteed loan to start up a small business, maybe at 10k/year, along with a program to help them start it up.

    I suspect that some type of a program based on pull factors like this would be much more successful than the draft. It would also go a long way towards re-inforceing certain core values of American culture, as opposed to re-inforceing ones that are against American culture (e.g. hyper-centralization).

    One final point and I'll leave it along. "Conscientious objectors" won't have a leg to stand on and a pull program will do a lot to make national service popular in the long run once people start graduating out of it, going to universities and running their own businesses. And besides that, it would mean that we in Canada don't have to deal with all those pesky American draft dodgers stealing our jobs <grin>.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
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  2. #42
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default Mefloquine Dreams

    I was getting worried about you for awhile, you go off and shoot at Bambi with a bow and arrow, then you have dreams about chatty Kathy dolls and then you found your pet rock???? Remember 3.2 beer machines they had in the barracks for awhile.
    You made me laugh with that one. Although I gave up the beer years ago, it may be the long term effects of mefloquine taken in Africa well beyond the 90-day recommendation. We use to call the day once a week we took our mefloquine, "dream days." We learned to consume those pills on a staggered schedule, let we all be flying through the night. Cerebral malaria was the very real alternative so I took my pills.

    Actually I am a long term Hienlein fan since I read "Starship Troopers" as kid during the Vietnam War and the raging debates over service, draft, and war. I was sorely disappointed by the movie. Many consider him a neanderthal but he was on to something.

    Best
    Tom

    PS Bambi survived but I am going again next week

  3. #43
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Actually I am a long term Hienlein fan since I read "Starship Troopers" as kid during the Vietnam War and the raging debates over service, draft, and war. I was sorely disappointed by the movie. Many consider him a neanderthal but he was on to something.
    Definately! Personally, if I ever teach a course in ethics, I am making Startship Troopers, the book not that abortion of a movie, required reading. As a side note, I always loved H&MP and I base some of my courses on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    PS Bambi survived but I am going again next week
    Good! There are too many of those pesky critters running around eating gardens and causing car accidents.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  4. #44
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default

    BTW, the issue of the US dumping their "undesireables" in Canada is rather a hot button one right now for us.

    Exiled U.S. sex offender arrested at border
    Last Updated: Thursday, October 26, 2006 | 9:59 PM ET
    CBC News

    An American teacher exiled to Canada after he was convicted of sexually assaulting a student was arrested by Canadian border guards on Thursday.

    More...
    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  5. #45
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Tom,
    Here is one my boss and I were bantering back and forth. Is the concept of "Inter-Agency" cooperation soley a military buy in, or does it go both ways? He sent me an article out of the Foreign Affairs Journal that caused me to look hard at this question. In that "90 & 180 day objectives" document I sent you I brought up that regardless of how good ISF gets, without some reconstruction funds to get projects going, the Iraqi public will not establish faith in local government; no faith in local government = en environment in which insurgents can support.

    We've heard about the PRTs (Proincial Reconstruction Teams), what we need are CRTs (City Reconstruction teams). Teams that like you had mentioned could be drawn from American Society to function within the role of their acknowledged profession. Doctors, lawyers, Small Buisness gurus, telecommunications specialists, power plant engineers, agricultural engineers, city planners, family planners, firemen, hazordous waste guys,etc. - all the skills that cities have come to rely on to keep a city functioning. Everybody has heard about the National Guard guys who are often more valuable fulfilling their civilian role here then their MOS (they do a good job at both), so why have we not asked the question why?

    We need practical experience in these roles, not just well educated OGA (Other Govt. Agency) types. Their would have to be unity of command, and with that would come the provision of personal security. But lets say that at a certain watermark in the transition of security, host nation security forces took up the role securing their AOR (which of course is the plan), and the auxillary role CF (Coalition Forces) took on was the facillitation of reconstruction?

    I'll stay away from formng a concrete oppinion about a military draft question because I don't have a resonable comparrison (my PEBD was 85), but I do recall the horror stories of armed FODs going into the barracks, but that may have been more the result of a social/cultural problem associated with the times. However an offer to forego paying back massive student loans and some incentives along the lines of a GI Bill, or other like ideas might get us the kind of professionals we would need for Reconstruction Teams - maybe even offer their kids a free state school 4 year scholarship and offer them & their families Active duty Healthcare benefits, PX, Commissary priviliedges while serving - oh and pay them at the same professional rate you'd pay military doctors, lawyers, etc.

    In staying with the theme of the thread, its a new era in warfare with new enemies, and we need to adapt faster then the enemy
    Best Regards, Rob
    Last edited by Rob Thornton; 10-27-2006 at 03:27 PM.

  6. #46
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Tom, I read Starship troopers to. It is a great book. I agree forget the movie, but the uniforms were pretty neat. Citizenship should be earned not just granted based upon some accident of biology and geography. As for Bambi maybe take a rifle just in case??


    Marc, I didn't know sex offenders were considered criminals in Canada.(bad joke)

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    Marc, I didn't know sex offenders were considered criminals in Canada.(bad joke)
    Only when they come from the US Actually, his case is a rather anomolous one under Canadian law. Technically, our age of consent is 14 unless their is a relationship of institutional power (e.g. teacher-student) in which case it's 18. From my understanding, the girl was 15, but he was also her teacher.

    Actually, what most of us are really getting peeved about is having Canada viewed as a dumping ground <wry grin>. Hey, we're only now getting rid of te last crop of Marxist profs you guys sent us during the Vietnam War

    Marc
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    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Marc, I posted my reply to Tom without reading yours - but the lesson of the contractors is clear where there is some type of worthwhile incentive, people will sign up. Debt reduction in the "now", or long term (I have 4 kids) would be a powerful tool in getting me to volunteer a year of my time - particularly if in that year my hardship was the equivalent to a bad vacation, and one in which I felt I had contributed to something other then my self.

    For some humor on a serious subject - We need a name for this service corps of debter/do gooders, any suggestions? "Corps of Engineers" is taken, "America Corps" was already proposed and sounds imperial, the "Selfless Service" is too altruistic, and "Team America" is copyrighted.

    How about (seriously) the "Global Service Corps", sponsored by the US, open to CF partners (could offer oppotunities for citizenship - if you are willing to serve then in my book you stand to make a good American (or Canadian)). It does not sound completely unilateral, but we need to consider keeping it out of the UN resource arena - it may commit us to use of force where we prefer not to.
    Regards, Rob
    Last edited by Rob Thornton; 10-27-2006 at 03:56 PM.

  9. #49
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Default I know I'm going to get yelled over this diatribe.

    How many who aren't serving in the military would return willingly if recalled?

    I have an interesting family history along my dads line. My grandfather fought in the Spanish American War and World War 1. One of my Uncles was I believe was drafted and served in Korea and later in Vietnam, and my father (born when my grand dad was 62!) was drafted early (1961-62) into Vietnam.

    My uncle was a conscientious objector and did three tours (two in Korea and one I think in Vietnam) as a medic. My uncle describes those years as the most rewarding of his life. My father was an “advisor” training people in the mountains how to generate electricity. When they get together they rarely talk about serving, but when they do they refer to their time in the “peace corps”.

    Military service was imposed on them as a duty to be accomplished at peril of their lives and liberty. The rewards in their service so closely related yet so substantially different did not drive a rejection of the political process, but rewarded them with a deep and substantial sense of patriotism.

    The fear and loathing of a draft may be an expression of the loathing an entire generation of baby-boomers expresses as contempt for the bounty they’ve received. In that shadow of a morally depleted generation are gen-x, and gen-y who have already expressed a willingness to solve problems versus create new ones. Gen-x and gen-y denigrated and attacked as worthless slackers have to be problem solvers as they’ve been the bed rock holding up the baby boomers for years. If the solution to the problems of global terrorism threats requires a draft then express the solution with proof of the problem.

    I asked who would serve given the chance. The fact is that I think most with prior service would willingly jump into the breach and the reticence in servitude is not with those who have served (us?), or those who would serve (gen-x, gen-y), but likely in the realm of those who attempt to lead. Where is the quote of the American general who said “We are at war, and America is at the Mall”. The culture of fear imbibed and pandered by civilian leadership is without sustenance and soon becomes stale. There is an entire generation who is the most educated fearsomely independent and collectively generous group in history. They are all entering or in their 20’s.

    It seems that making a case for war in secret hearings holding that case to be a state secret and then expecting a democracy to step into line with whole hearted support would be a major error in strategy. Reasoned discourse while educating the public on the course of war has to become a priority engendering realistic expectations rather than a fearful boogeyman. The answer to the General is everybody went to the mall because the President told us to.

    Gen-x and gen-y would tell you “Mall? Try Amazon or E-Bay”. Who’s truly out of touch with beating heart of society?

  10. #50
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Rob,

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    Marc, I posted my reply to Tom without reading yours - but the lesson of the contractors is clear where there is some type of worthwhile incentive, people will sign up. Debt reduction in the "now", or long term (I have 4 kids) would be a powerful tool in getting me to volunteer a year of my time - particularly if in that year my hardship was the equivalent to a bad vacation, and one in which I felt I had contributed to something other then my self.
    I really think that pull factors work better, and debt reduction, now or in the future, would be a good one, especially for civilians. That post I made was really aimed at explaining why I thought a draft would be a very bad idea and I wasn't thinking about immediate needs per se. Hmmm, maybe tied in with the idea of a sabbatical from a business where the business gets to double write off the salary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    For some humor on a serious subject - We need a name for this service corps of debter/do gooders, any suggestions? "Corps of Engineers" is taken, "America Corps" was already proposed and sounds imperial, the "Selfless Service" is too altruistic, and "Team America" is copyrighted.
    LOLOL. How about "The Peace Through Superior Firepower Corps"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    How about (seriously) the "Global Service Corps", sponsored by the US, open to CF partners (could offer oppotunities for citizenship - if you are willing to serve then in my book you stand to make a good American (or Canadian)). It does not sound completely unilateral, but we need to consider keeping it out of the UN resource arena - it may commit us to use of force where we prefer not to.
    Regards, Rob
    I certainly agree with keeping any of the operations out of the hands of the UN - their record is not very encouraging <wry grin>.

    How about basing a general/international level organziation out of NATO / SEATO with individual ones from every member if they choose to do so? If it was kept fairly lean at the international level and emphasized individual national buy-in to specific projects as well as the ability of individuals to buy into a project not supported by their national government, this would probably work.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
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  11. #51
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    I asked who would serve given the chance. The fact is that I think most with prior service would willingly jump into the breach and the reticence in servitude is not with those who have served (us?), or those who would serve (gen-x, gen-y), but likely in the realm of those who attempt to lead. Where is the quote of the American general who said “We are at war, and America is at the Mall”. The culture of fear imbibed and pandered by civilian leadership is without sustenance and soon becomes stale. There is an entire generation who is the most educated fearsomely independent and collectively generous group in history. They are all entering or in their 20’s.
    I really think this is a key point and it mirrors some of the discussions I have been having with my wife - a self-styled "Northern Yankee Democrat" from Princeton. In a lot of ways, it comes down to a question of "why are we fighting", and your comment about "those who attempt to lead" is telling. Much as I dislike referencing him, I think that Jurgen Habermas' idea of a "legitimation crisis" is really playing out now in the US over leadership issues and the "moral stature" of those who govern. I know that this is also happening in Canada, but the politics are sufficiently different that it doesn't have the same impact of moral bankrupcy.

    I want to comment on your "culture of fear" remark, because I think it is another crucial point you raise. You are absolutely right about it "becoming stale". At the risk of sounding very weird, I would argue that such a form of cultural manipulation on the part of self serving politicians (and academics <sigh>), is a spiritual abyss that destroys the soul of individuals by teaching them to hate both the "Other" and themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    It seems that making a case for war in secret hearings holding that case to be a state secret and then expecting a democracy to step into line with whole hearted support would be a major error in strategy.
    Oh the sarcasm! The dry wit! I love it!!!!!

    On a (slightly) more serous note, when does the Whte House get renamed as The Court of Saint James?

    On a (definately) more serious note, democracies, regardless of their form, rely on the consent and support of the governed in a trust relationship and, when that trust relationship is breached, the entire basis of social legitimacy disappears. If you detect a slight Burkian strand of thought in my comments, I'm not surprised .

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    Reasoned discourse while educating the public on the course of war has to become a priority engendering realistic expectations rather than a fearful boogeyman. The answer to the General is everybody went to the mall because the President told us to.
    I am reminded of a quote, can't remember where I heard it, about a Russian taxi driver in Moscow saying "Democracy is wonderful! As soon as we get a President to tell us what to do, we will have it down pat" (or something like that). Selil, I think you are right in your answer to the General, but what does that say about the role of the President and the responsabilities of individual citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    Gen-x and gen-y would tell you “Mall? Try Amazon or E-Bay”. Who’s truly out of touch with beating heart of society?
    LOLOL. And the small wars village commons is here.... .

    Honestly, no democracy can survive, except as a shell, without its citizens having to bear the responsabilities of being citizens as well as enjoying the rights of being citizens.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    The other reason for extending time in grade/service is to provide time for the additional education and developmental experiences required by 21st Century complex warfare. If we want our military to have experience with other USG Agencies or Alliances to experience the rest of the DIME or if we want strong, resident masters Degrees in International Relations, Economics, Social Sciences that takes a couple of extra years not currently provided for in a career with many tactical, military gates.

  13. #53
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default Unified Action at the Pointy End of the Spear

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    Tom,
    Here is one my boss and I were bantering back and forth. Is the concept of "Inter-Agency" cooperation soley a military buy in, or does it go both ways? He sent me an article out of the Foreign Affairs Journal that caused me to look hard at this question. In that "90 & 180 day objectives" document I sent you I brought up that regardless of how good ISF gets, without some reconstruction funds to get projects going, the Iraqi public will not establish faith in local government; no faith in local government = en environment in which insurgents can support.

    We've heard about the PRTs (Proincial Reconstruction Teams), what we need are CRTs (City Reconstruction teams). Teams that like you had mentioned could be drawn from American Society to function within the role of their acknowledged profession. Doctors, lawyers, Small Buisness gurus, telecommunications specialists, power plant engineers, agricultural engineers, city planners, family planners, firemen, hazordous waste guys,etc. - all the skills that cities have come to rely on to keep a city functioning. Everybody has heard about the National Guard guys who are often more valuable fulfilling their civilian role here then their MOS (they do a good job at both), so why have we not asked the question why?

    We need practical experience in these roles, not just well educated OGA (Other Govt. Agency) types. Their would have to be unity of command, and with that would come the provision of personal security. But lets say that at a certain watermark in the transition of security, host nation security forces took up the role securing their AOR (which of course is the plan), and the auxillary role CF (Coalition Forces) took on was the facillitation of reconstruction?

    I'll stay away from formng a concrete oppinion about a military draft question because I don't have a resonable comparrison (my PEBD was 85), but I do recall the horror stories of armed FODs going into the barracks, but that may have been more the result of a social/cultural problem associated with the times. However an offer to forego paying back massive student loans and some incentives along the lines of a GI Bill, or other like ideas might get us the kind of professionals we would need for Reconstruction Teams - maybe even offer their kids a free state school 4 year scholarship and offer them & their families Active duty Healthcare benefits, PX, Commissary priviliedges while serving - oh and pay them at the same professional rate you'd pay military doctors, lawyers, etc.

    In staying with the theme of the thread, its a new era in warfare with new enemies, and we need to adapt faster then the enemy
    Best Regards, Rob

    Rob,

    Critical issue one addressed in an opinion piece somewhat disguised as a news report by Austin Bay, a retired colonel, recounting lunch with the SecDef, on the need to realign the Nat Sec Structure to achieve "Unified Action, " yesterday on the Early Bird under the title "...With Forecasts" in the Wash Times.

    I saw what I would call somewhat "Unified Action" in the USG reaction to Desert Shield/Desert Storm. The senior leaders "played well" together and the agencies fell in behind them. On the intel side, we had some knife fights but by and large it was a semi-unified effort.

    At the pointy end of things in 2 very different embassies, I saw one case of complete and utter chaos and one of true unified action through a country team that worked very well together--so much so that we were altering viewpoints and affecting decisions in Washington. The first was in Zaire and it was a charlie foxtrot which began when the Charge (since we had no ambassador) announced he thought the refugee crisis in July 94 would be over in a couple of weeks. He refused to go to Goma until State ordered him to when the USAID Administrator announced he was coming out. When airlift started to flow, the same guy wanted a by name list of everyone coming so he could decide who would get country clearances; I had to threaten to call the Joint Staff and relay his demand before he backed off. He never got any better and OGA (aside from AID) didn't either.

    In contrast, Kigali worked well. DoD mobilized. The NSC mobilized. State mobilized. AID was superb; we had the AID chief of staff with us for months at a time. The effort was truly extraordinary: Rwanda and the Balkans were the 2 standing items of interest in the NSC and the White House--driven of course by a need to recoup much face lost in the USG's stance during the genocide.

    The other reason for extending time in grade/service is to provide time for the additional education and developmental experiences required by 21st Century complex warfare. If we want our military to have experience with other USG Agencies or Alliances to experience the rest of the DIME or if we want strong, resident masters Degrees in International Relations, Economics, Social Sciences that takes a couple of extra years not currently provided for in a career with many tactical, military gates
    As Jim Greer states above looking at US military culture we have to train ourselves in working across agency boundaries; we have to do the same thing on the State, AID, and other agency basis. The challenge we have is overcoming the cultures inside those agencies--as does the culture inside the military--must be changed. AID actually has the least distance to travel in making such changes. The get it done make it happen culture inside the military exists in AID. Getting such cultures to mesh in PRTs is made more difficult when they form on the fly. OFDA and its Disaster Assistance Response Teams (DARTs) are semi-permament teams that form according to need like we form JTFs. I believe we need standing JTFs or at least ready JTFs that form, execrise, and stand down all the while remaining on call. I believe also that we need to increase the JIIM aspects of such JTFs and start forcing other agencies to play with us.


    Best

    Tom

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    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Tom,
    I had a buddy that did an internship with FedEx, do we do that with OGAs? Could we get them to do it with us? Could logisitican do a year with USAID, or an IO guy with USIS? How about and Infantryman with FBI? Lets say a CPT gets himself BQ'd then instead of going to a CTC - he goes to do a 6 month course for the OGA, then a 2 1/2 year tour with the OGA? Now lets turn the tables and bring the other guy in to our midsts. Would an FBI guy be useful in COIN - you betcha (We've had to create our own wire diagrams on AIF from scratch - what I would not give to have such a resource on the team. Could a USAID guy work at a CTC, deploy on a MEU, work with a transport wing? DOD was pushing hard to break down the barriers and turn us purple - I think we are making significant progress in those areas, but that was brought about in the light of pre-9/11 requirements. Its still valid and still a need, but post 9/11 has brought the same need with OGAs/DoD.

    While I'm aware that OGA types sometimes attend the War College, I don't know if they attend something like ILE (maybe I'll find out in Sept 07), and I know they don't attend the CPT's Career Courses. In fact I could not tell you what their professional education system looks like outside of attending a university. What if instead of sending a guy to a CPTs career course or ILE, he went to Georgetown? The reason I bring it up is because its a reource thing - there is only so much time, and while time off for advance degrees is great, there simply is no way everyone can get there given OPTEMPO early enough in their career where it changes their cultural bias (I think its very subtle sometimes, but a natural inclination).

    So I guess there are at least two ways to get new DNA into the genetic pool - add to it, or trade it out. Maybe the right answer is a combination of both, mutts are generally more healthy anyway.

  15. #55
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default

    Tom,
    I had a buddy that did an internship with FedEx, do we do that with OGAs? Could we get them to do it with us? Could logisitican do a year with USAID, or an IO guy with USIS? How about and Infantryman with FBI? Lets say a CPT gets himself BQ'd then instead of going to a CTC - he goes to do a 6 month course for the OGA, then a 2 1/2 year tour with the OGA? Now lets turn the tables and bring the other guy in to our midsts. Would an FBI guy be useful in COIN - you betcha (We've had to create our own wire diagrams on AIF from scratch - what I would not give to have such a resource on the team. Could a USAID guy work at a CTC, deploy on a MEU, work with a transport wing? DOD was pushing hard to break down the barriers and turn us purple - I think we are making significant progress in those areas, but that was brought about in the light of pre-9/11 requirements. Its still valid and still a need, but post 9/11 has brought the same need with OGAs/DoD.

    While I'm aware that OGA types sometimes attend the War College, I don't know if they attend something like ILE (maybe I'll find out in Sept 07), and I know they don't attend the CPT's Career Courses. In fact I could not tell you what their professional education system looks like outside of attending a university. What if instead of sending a guy to a CPTs career course or ILE, he went to Georgetown? The reason I bring it up is because its a reource thing - there is only so much time, and while time off for advance degrees is great, there simply is no way everyone can get there given OPTEMPO early enough in their career where it changes their cultural bias (I think its very subtle sometimes, but a natural inclination).

    So I guess there are at least two ways to get new DNA into the genetic pool - add to it, or trade it out. Maybe the right answer is a combination of both, mutts are generally more healthy anyway.

    Tom, I found that article on the Earlybird. Bay makes a srong point, which leads me to ponder, if we are aware of, what can/will be done? Below is an excerpt form the article which originally appeared in the OCT 27 Edition of the Washington Times, pg 17 by Austin Bay entitled "With Forecasts"

    "I know, that's quite a claim, which is why I need to translate the military-speak: Unified Action means coordinating and synchronizing every "tool of power" America has to achieve a political end -- like winning a global war for national survival against terrorists who hijack economically and politically fragile nations and provinces.
    People understand the role of soldiers and cops in a war, but in 21st century wars where economic and political development are determinative, an Agriculture Department arborist and a Commerce Department trade consultant can be a powerful contributors to "Unified Action."
    Restoring Iraqi agriculture provides an example. Saddam Hussein's economic and political policies damaged agriculture in the land that eight millennia ago spawned the Agricultural Revolution. (Heck of an achievement, huh?) Agriculture, Commerce and several NGOs have expertise and programs that help revive Iraqi farms. Still, problems occur when trying to tailor programs to meet specific local needs -- like, who pays for the program and is ultimately in charge of oversight and coordination.
    While serving in Iraq in 2004, I met a young U.S. Army captain who was running a successful small-scale date palm restoration project. What we really need are joint development and security teams, where agricultural and economic specialists work with that captain "in the field" on a sustained, day-to-day basis. We need to decide who is in charge of that team (the captain or the arborist?) and how we fund it.
    Our system for "Unified Action" is still largely a Cold War, 20th-century relic designed to prop up governments (so often corrupt and ill-led), instead of helping individuals and neighborhoods become economically self-sustaining and self-securing. Winning war in the Age of the Internet means improving neighborhoods and individual lives. The 2006 Nobel Peace Prize winner and micro-finance whiz Muhammad Yunus understands this.
    We are in a long, global war, where economic and political development programs must reinforce security and intelligence operations -- and vice versa.
    We've been improvising "joint development and security operations," and we've learned from our improvisation (Mr. Rumsfeld's "we're better than we were").
    But it's time to quit improvising. Effective "Unified Action" requires re-engineering 20th-century Beltway bureaucracies -- which means thoughtful, sophisticated cooperation between the executive branch and Congress.
    That means getting past the sensational gossip and confronting an essential issue.
    Austin Bay is a nationally syndicated columnist."
    Last edited by Rob Thornton; 10-28-2006 at 07:59 AM. Reason: adding a selection from a supporting article

  16. #56
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default ROTC for Foreign Service and other types

    Just a follow up, but what about an Officer Training Program aimed at producing foreign service types? They go to a Basic Camp, and an Advance Camp, get a huge scholarship, and pay it back by doing 4 years Active and 4 years IRR in the Foreign Service?

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    Just a follow up, but what about an Officer Training Program aimed at producing foreign service types? They go to a Basic Camp, and an Advance Camp, get a huge scholarship, and pay it back by doing 4 years Active and 4 years IRR in the Foreign Service?
    That would certainly make sense - it could also be adapted to almost any skill set and aimed at any organization.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Thornton View Post
    Just a follow up, but what about an Officer Training Program aimed at producing foreign service types? They go to a Basic Camp, and an Advance Camp, get a huge scholarship, and pay it back by doing 4 years Active and 4 years IRR in the Foreign Service?
    You could easily tool ROTC this way, since there are already ways it interfaces with what are considered the more professional degrees (legal and medical).

  19. #59
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Default Mandates a Fundamental Shift in Approach

    Although I agree that a ROTC approach to the Foreign Service would have benefits, I will say that barring a fundamental shift (akin to California opening new waterfront properties adjacent to Ft Irwin after the rest falls into the sea) in the way the Foreign Service approaches life. It remains in its heart an organization founded on Ivy league elitism and it maintains a caste system that would make sense in old school S Africa or India.

    Sec State Rice and the former Sec State GEN Powell have attempted to change this; that the Embassy in Baghdad is a rotating door for short termers tells me they have not succeeded.

    We are going through the transformation of Civil Service. A larger goal and one easier to manage due to its lesser size should have been creating a National Security Corps that draws all foreign relations oriented organizations into a central being, like we were supposed to have done with Homeland Security.

    best
    Tom

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    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    What I would like to see ROTC do is shift away from its heavy emphasis on technical majors and move more into a dynamic form of officer entry.

    Currently there are SOME language-type programs available for our cadets, either in the form of advanced language training or cultural immersion (basically a semester or two spent overseas). However, there is no direct link between this system and the university's relations with overseas universities (the school I work for has exchange programs with universities in a number of places, including Egypt and Morocco ). What ROTC COULD be used for is to draw in more people with a liberal arts background (anthro and history, to name two examples) and then allow them (in fact encourage them) to take a semester or two overseas (through the university's exchange program). This would give them a leg up in terms of real skills and cultural exposure when they go on active duty. Currently ROTC does not really tolerate time "away from the unit," which prevents us from making the best use of our students and the programs that are available for them.

    Models for this do exist to a degree. The Navy, for example, spends a great deal more time and money on their ROTC cadets than the Air Force or the Army. Almost every summer they are in the program, Navy cadets are taking part in some sort of cruise or duty exposure, some of which does take them overseas.

    ROTC also has the advantage of being able to bring in students who are older than those allowed into the academies. We really should look at this program as a way to bring more mature, balanced officers into the service and to take full advantage of the study programs offered by the various universities.

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